Jeet Kune Do

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Thomas Vince, Mar 5, 2002.

  1. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    I grew up in Washington State and had the priviledge to train with some of Bruce's best in the summertime's of my high school years. Dan Inosanto was one of Ed Parker;s black belts and was from the phillipines. He decided to go with Bruce Lee on their own journey. Many of the drills, footwork, and principles are what we call "short hand techniques" in Kenpo. I even had the opportunity to witness some refugee's from China who were in the underground city, oh yes there is
    a huge underground city in Seattle and when I was growing up there ways into this underground in many other ways than in those tours they give. Go into a restaurant go downstairs and slip through a whole in the concrete or even a door underground and you were in a different world. Many of these refugee's were from the "Tong's" of China, some were teaching and the fighting was real and intense, nothing like "fight club". These guys were serious. There was a lot of stick fighting to and if were lucky you could find someone to train you.There was literally a connection from the old Hawaii sugar cane fields, to the "coolies" of the old railroad days in North America. These people were the real thing. Jeet kune Do was an incomplete system, not designed as a way, in fact "using no way, as way" was the philosophy, yet the foundation was a mixture of Jun Fan, fillipno fighting arts and Ed Parker Kenpo, my favorite topic in Jeet Kune Do is Entering and Trapping.
    Great topic,
    Sincerely Thomas
     
  2. khafra

    khafra New Member

    **** it, I'm never going to forgive my parents for keeping me homeschooled and away from "harmful influences" like the big, bad city across the lake while I was growing up in Kirkland, now.
     
  3. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Thomas, it is apparent that you are a loyal advocate of Kenpo. A common theme is that you seem to attribute a lot of Bruce Lees successes to his grounding in Kenpo. This is a completely new point of view to me, and not one supported in Linda Lees book 'The man only I knew'. You have just mentioned Dan Inosanto as being a member, but my understanding was that Dan was involved in MA before he ever met Ed Parker. The oddest statement to me is that you say;

    The more popular conception is that Bruce was using anything he thought was valid. Any system is incomplete by it's very nature.

    Sorry if I have picked you up wrong, I have just never read any comments like this before!

    As a total change of subject, I read that Elvis was a student of Ed Parker. How is he remembered in the style?

    Andy Murray
     
  4. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    Andy,
    Please don't misunderstand me I am aware of the Jun Fan and Wing Chun influence from Yip Man on Bruce Lee and the it is a fact that the system was never full completed or organized. many of it's fighting philosophies are exactly like those of Kenpo for specific reasons not that I am obviously an advocate of Kenpo, it is the truth. What Linda placed in her book covered most of the history and what was important to the family to let others know.
    As far as Dan Inosanto yes he was involved in the martial arts before he met Ed Parker. Mr. Inosanto was in fact one of Ed Parkers Black Belts and met Bruce Lee through Ed Parker. Dan Inosanto added a real flair to Jeet Kune Do. They have added lap sao and other "sticky hand" techniques as well as other Chinese and Philipino techniques to "complete the system." The statements were not meant to "bash" in anyway shape or form, I understand Jeet Kune Do because I took lessons fron Dan Inosanto in Seattle many years ago and I personally understand it as "Shorthand" Kenpo and nothing more. In fact we use a variation of the "wooden dummy" in my studio. When you speak of the "more popular" conception of Jeet Kune Do today it does not reflect what I had experienced 20 years ago. I did enjoy working out with these guys and my shared experience my have come on a little to strong. In the future I will remember that I am talking to other martial artists in other styles and not my own students!
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Vince
     
  5. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I think I probably speak for a lot of people on the forum when I say; I think I know a lot about other styles, yet further explanation is beneficial. If you could post an article on Kenpo we will all benefit. I only get upset when people try to hoodwink me with their own propoganda, 'my style's better than your style' type stuff. I honestly believe that there would not be the interest in MA there is today if it were not for the influence of three people in this century. It is awfully easy for other people to take credit for their actions when they are no longer with us. I feel that Ed Parker may have been one of these people. Bruce Lee wascertainly another. I'll leave the third up to you all individually.

    I would ask you to explain the definition of JKD as being Short-Hand Kenpo however. Perhaps in your article..........

    Respectfully
    Andy Murray
     
  6. Cooler

    Cooler Keepin The Peace Supporter

    Hi Andy,

    just to let you know Thomas has already had an article published with us called Angle of Cancellation check it out it is a very good read.

    Any new articles Thomas would like to submit would be gratfully received.

    Cooler
     
  7. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hi Cooler,

    Thanks, but I already caught that one. I really meant something more general about Ed Parkers Kenpo. If you want me to be more specific, the relationship between Kenpo and JKD would be fascinating.

    Andy Murray
     
  8. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Slight correction: Dan Inosanto isn't from the Philippines. He is Pilipino but he grew up in Stockton, CA. I'm not even sure he's ever been to the Philippines ... and if he has, it wasn't until he was an adult.

    Mike
     
  9. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I'd like to hear opinions from people who are training 'period' JKD.

    Oakland JKD, Seattle JKD, or Jun Fan etc...........

    Just to educate everybody, is anyone willing to explain the differences?
     
  10. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi guys

    I train "period" JKD

    My period is the 21st Century :D

    Sorry - couldn't resist :D
     
  11. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hi Yoda,

    from that would I be correct in inerpreting that you try to keep JKD 'evolving', as opposed to the JKD 'Concept' periods I mentioned?

    Andy
     
  12. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Yep - one nail hit squarely on the head :D
     
  13. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hey Yoda,

    you don't get away with one liners here mate!

    Do you have a base of JKD syllabus that you base your expansions on?

    You must know of the 'Concepts' groups I am asking about, so what's your take?

    Why do you still use the term JKD?

    Reply should be at least three lines I reckon heh heh heh!

    Andy
     
  14. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hehe - OK here goes...

    I think the main confusion is the term "JKD". What you refer to as "period groups" is what we call Jun Fan Gung Fu - and yes, that has a curriculum that I use to teach the material that SiJo Bruce Lee passed on to his students. JFGF is, however, only one facet to what we do at Combative Edge Academy. It is our base - the platform from which we embark on our own individual JKD journeys.

    Jeet Kune Do however is the process of discovering our own truth in combat using Bruce Lees ideas & concepts as a guide or vehicle.

    Of course, this is open to much interpretation, and will be the source of much dischord between rival groups for years to come. Sad really.

    Also - as you no doubt realise, you can use another man's quotes (or quotes he quoted) to justify just about any position. But with that in mind here are the "Bruce Lee" quotes that I base my "JKD belief system" on :D

    "Using no way as the way : Using no limitation as limitation"

    "Using all ways : bound by none"

    Some will see a paradox between those two quotes (no way vs all ways) but if you think deeply about it there is no conflict there. It all depends on your view of the 1st quote. I take it to mean using "no WAY" as opposed to using "NO WAY".

    I use the term JKD because that's the process we are going through - our goal is totality in combat. we are striving to be functionsl & combative in all ranges, modes & environments of combat. No easy task- but if it was an easy task it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
     
  15. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hi Yoda,

    So you have Jun Fan Gung Fu as your base. Footwork, basic offense and defense.

    When do you decide to incorporate something new? Is that up to you personally, or do you wait for a more senior JKD tpe of person to 'greenlight' it first.

    Do you think the 'classical' arts, which follow a more linear path are as restricted as they were in Bruce's day?

    Not trick questions, just personally interested as I used to crosstrain with some JKD guys.

    Andy
     
  16. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi Andy

    What I "add" to my Jun Fan base is entirely up to me. The only stipulation my instructor makes is that I must teach all ranges & areas to my students. A condition of my Instructorship under him is that I must also teach the 5 "core" arts that make up HIS interpretation of JKD. This ensures that I do not pass on my personal preferences to me students - they must find their own path from the options we give them & the seeds of research we sow in them. Our 5 core arts are designed to give a balanced curriculum covering all ranges. They are....

    Jun Fan Gung Fu
    Filipino Martial Arts
    Muay Thai
    Silat
    Groundfighting (BJJ / Shoot)

    One area that I differ in from my instructor is the FMA - he teaches primarily from the Inosanto/LaCoste Kali system. I teach the basics of this but get the guts of my FMA from the Doce Pares Eskrima system.

    Onto your second question: No - I think the vast majority of "classical" arts have progressed in their outlook - even if they won't admit it :D
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2002
  17. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hi Yoda,

    Fascinating. You say;

    I may be sticking my nose in too far here, but do you ever find yoursef teaching concepts from the formative period of JKD, that you know have been superceded by later discoveries from systems more recently assimilated!

    Interesting analogy here! JKD guys are like 'The Borg'!

    Absorb what is useful, destroy what is useless!

    Andy
     
  18. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi Andy

    Of course - because a method's effectiveness & usefullness can & does vary with the individual. I am vehemently against throwing anything out just because Sifu so-and-so says so. I will find my own truth, and that will no doubt not be his/your/anyone else's truth. I use quite a lot of stuff from Jun Fan that many modern JKD people have thrown out - and vica-versa :D

    No - not really. We (or we should) only throw out that which we personally cannot or do not wish to assimilate.

    A big problem I see is that people are too quick to denounce something as "useless". Take Muay Thai for instance - great art with many strengths - and weaknessess too. You cannot appreciate or evaluate a system by attending a few seminars or just kicking with your shin & throwing an few knees. I trained at a Muay Thai gym for 5 years, graded up to instructor level, had a few fights, THEN I felt I was in a position to evaluate the art & absorb what I find usefull into MY JKD.
     
  19. Kendo_Cougar

    Kendo_Cougar New Member

    JKD.. Everyonel ikes JKD Because of Bruce lee.. he does JKD. So i think almost everyone wants to take over Bruce lle to a new Bruce lee. :yeleyes:
     
  20. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hey barman - bring me a pint of what Kendo_Cougar is drinking. Must be reet good stuff!

    LOL!
     

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