well to start off with there are no specifc techniques in jkd whoever teaches,thought would know that.jkd is a personal thing.dan inosanto and taky kimura teach jun fan and its same stuff because its a set system jkd is principles on fighting so can be taught but not set down in stone jun fan has a set material that can be learned. u say that u are trying to correct me but simply matter is u are looking in from the outside.u say that u apply the concepts to your tkd good.and u read books on jkd but u don't surround yourself with people in the art.no matter what group of thought who are u to correct people.i will accept it if people correct me.but u have no authortiy on jkd. u have never spoken to or trained with a jkd instruuctor so u may kmow a bit of history but do u understand it. also thanks simplicty for your comments.agree with u all on the learning path
So according to you, Jun Fan Gung Fu is the actual style that Bruce Lee taught to his students while Jeet Kune Do is a concept. So in 1967 Bruce Lee gave Dan Inosanto a rank in a idea that he called Jeet Kune Do. So in other words, If I learn Jun Fan Gung Fu from Taky Kimura, Dan Inosanto's senior, it'll be the same thing as learning it Jeet Kune Do from Dan Inosanto. The main difference being that I wont have to do any fma, muay thai or silat. Anyway, JKD & Jun Fan Gung Fu are only names so I wont fuss over it. That's not entirely correct. I trained in TKD for a number of years. Three styles actually. I've collected some JKD books and vids over the years so I have a basic understanding of the system. Like the bai jong stance, the 5 ways of attack, the way their kicks are performed, the fact that the hook kick in JKD is called a round kick in most other styles, power side forward, non-telegraphic techniques, etc. etc. But I'm no expert. As far as surrounding myself with people in the art, what do you think I'm doing right now? I learned most of what I know on the JKD politics from Jun Fan Gung Fu and Jeet Kune Do students. I've seen many scans of certificates given out by Bruce Lee to his students. I've read dozens of interviews where Dan Inosanto stated one thing back in the early 80's but then years later he contradicts himself. I don't have to actually attend a class to learn about the politics of the art. Nor do I need a JKD instructor in order to swallow every thing he says just because he say's so. If that were the case I would believe that TaeKwonDo was thousands of years old and attributed to the Hwarang warriors. But in truth the art only retains a smidgen of it's Korean ancestry and can attribute most of it's techniques straight from Japanese Karate. The point is, don't believe everything you hear. Search out the truth yourself. This is an internet forum. We're here to discuss JKD and any related issues. If you state something that is incorrect, I will correct you. If I state something that is incorrect then someone will correct me. Correct me if I'm wrong? If you prefer that people not comment on the things you say then you would have better luck building your onw website than visiting internet forums. Alright, so let's say I tell you that Dan Inosanto had Jerry Poteet and Ted Wong ranked as 5 in JKD. Then I provide a scan to prove it. Does my not having a JKD instructor make that scan any less relevant? You said that Dan is the head of JKD because he was certified to teach JKD by Bruce Lee. I stated that he was given rank in JKD and no where on his certificate does it say that he was an instructor. That is a fact. I tried finding a scan of his certificate but couldn't. Do I have to run out and train under a JKD instructor inorder for you to believe it? That's silly. It's as if I told you that it's 23 degrees here in NYC but you refuse to believe me because I'm not a meteorologist. You don't make much sense. We're not discussing techniques on this thread just JKD politics. Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. We seem to be going around in circles. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Authority dos not carry much weight here because the original students are light years ahead of ALL the "downline" students of Dan. The politics suck and that is why my Sifu / Sigung have "their own" system the Tao of Gung Fu. Thats where I was headed when I said it was better than Dans because by "his students" definition "they" have no system. Felix Macias Sr. & Jr. have created their own system based on what they learned from Jimmy and has evolved for 40 years. None of the 2nd generations are anywhere near their level. I have much respect for Dan the TRUE MASTER. It's the students downline from him that think he is a god. He is a man, a great man, but not the only great man.
ok fair enough,but do some classes or seminars with dan and another jkd instructor might get a clearer understanding
Tel, I sometimes have trouble understanding you. Either you're a high school kid or english isn't your first language. I'm not trying to insult you, it's just difficult to understand you sometimes. As for my MA background it's irrelevent. If you and I were talking about chi sao or trapping and I said that I watched a few JKD tapes and chi sao is corny and trapping doesn't work. Then you could bring up the fact that I don't train under a certified instructor and that unless I wast taught it correctly then I could not make an informed judgement. I would then say fare enough because you would be absolutely correct. But if I told you that Bruce Lee stopped training in Chi Sao and that Taky Kimura attributes it to Bruce Lee not being able to practice Chi Sao with Kareem Abdul Jabar because of the height difference then my MA background matters not. I can just give you a link to the interview with Taky Kimura. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Let's just do this. Let me know if there is anything that I have stated on this topic that you feel is plain wrong. Just ask some clear and concise questions and please use direct quotes. Thanks.
no just typing error's. ok start with the Bl and kareem bit,u say he stoped doing chi sao,maybe he just stoped doing with a guy who is over seven feet,there is no evidance to say thet he stop doing chi sao all together. all im saying is you have a go at inosanto but never met the guy don't train under him.so you making comments on something u don't truely understand. yeah u can dig up all sorts of info but do u know the reasons why this happened.
Fare enough. From Taky and Andy Kimura's website. I don't believe I had a go at Inosanto, meaning I put the man down. Sure I disagree with some of his methods and a few things he has said in the past but disagreeing with someone isn't the same as insulting them. I just don't see him as the keeper of the light of JKD, so to speak. He's good at what he does but so are other people who have trained under Bruce Lee and they are all equally important in understanding the art that Bruce Lee taught and passed on.
i agree with the inosanto approach and believe that this is the way Bl would of wanted it.i know some people like doing the jun fan art and applying the jkd principles th that.all im saying is that i hoped we all could peice together what really happened but time and different view have put an end to that. so tho we all approach jkd in a different way we all have one goal that to become the best martial artist we can be. as for the jkd polics its a good debate but because it will never be agreed they are pointless. so el if that the way u want to approach jkd then hope it workd for u. have said this before me and simplicty didnt agree on a issue but once we reliese that we can grow if we find common goals or idea's.so hopefullly one day at least if the jkd communtiy can't agree at least the fighting and arguing can stop and we all agree we are really on the same path
Tel, I agree buddy. I thought we had a really good discussion on some of the political issues involving Bruce Lee, JKD and some of it's practitioners. As far as JKD, I don't mind studying it on my own. I have some excellent books, tapes and dvd's that have taught me some of the basics of JFJKD. Right now I'm practicing with some buds and we apply tons of stuff from different sources. In the future I may take up the art from a qualified instructor but right now I'm just having a blast with my training and discovering things on my own. On the whole OJKD vs JKDC issue. I think there is a place for both. OJKD teaches people the applications and methods used by Bruce Lee in his life time. It's up to the student to change, modify, add, subtract whatever they want into their training once they have learned the foundation. In JKDC one is training in the original curriculum (if I'm not mistaken) as well as some additions added by Dan Inosanto like Muay Thai Kicks, some Filipino Martial Arts, Silat etc. But since both follow the same principles they too can change, modify, add, subtract whatever from their personal art as well. Well, that is unless they're planning on becoming instructors. Then they would have to learn the curriculum and be able to teach the same curriculum unmodiified, for ranking purposes.
I'll be here with Felix Jr. Felix Jr does not use the JKD name but they do look up to him. THE JKD BEACH CAMP 3 Days of Training with several top Jeet Kune Do Instructors including: Wililam Holland, Steve Johnson, Larry Hartsell, Tim Tackett, Lamar Davis, Chris Sutton,Felix Macias Jr. & Pat Strong August 12, 13 & 14 2005 Jeet Kune Do Beach Camp 16400 Beach Blvd. #777 Huntington Beach Ca. 92649 http://www.ijkda.com/products.htm
I was referring the Concept camp because they pretty much eliminated the Gung Fu. Don't take offense but after Sifu's article came out in Jeet Kune Do Magazine in 2002 several instructors representing Bustillo and Kimura and others came to see what they had. Sifu "had to" spank em and send them home.
