Jeet Kune Do or decent alternative martial art in Chelsea are of London?

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by benuds, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    READ MY POSTS PROPERLY I PUT THEIR NAMES UP AND MENTIONED THE TITLES THEY WON. AND YES I KNOW YOU HAVE TO CONCENTRATE ON THE ART YOUR FIGHTING IN TO WIN TITLES I WON MINE ACROSS THE WORLD UNDER THE ONLY WORLD GOVERNING BODY THAT WAS AROUND AT THE TIME.

    JUST BECAUSE I KEEP GIVING YOU FACTS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE JKD WHO HAVE WON VARIOUS TITLES IN WHAT YOU ASKED. DONT GO CHANGING THE RULES TO SUIT YOUR OUTLOOK ON A GROUP YOU K OW VERY LITTLE ABOUT.
     
  2. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    And Master Betty. Do you know the difference between an an ameture fighter with a title and a processional?

    Is it the training? No they have to train just as hard.

    Or is it the fact that a professional gets paid and can afford to train full time and an ameture has to hold down a full time job and fit the training in where possible? So who works harder to win their title? You know that of which you have none ;)
     
  3. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Lol I know the difference a lot better than you do I imagine. If you think most "professional" fighters earn enough to train full time you're off your rocker. No, most amateurs DON'T train just as hard, because if they did, they wouldn't bother going for such a waste of a title.

    And you haven't named the titles anywhere on this thread - you've just named the disciplines. That's a point I wouldn't have had to clarify if you had ANY idea what the hell you were talking about.
     
  4. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    So I didn't metion Winston Fraser. David Onuma. And others eh! Read again. And maybe it's only a waist of a title because you have not won it Mmmm!

    I may be off my rocker but I have been there and won it all around the world. Waiste? Maybe. But maybe only in your eyes eh!

    Your boring me now. If you wish to stay blinkered good luck to you but some of us like to look outside the box. Good luck with that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  5. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    You never mentioned the organisation, ie, UKMF title at 65kg, WMC title at x weight etc.

    so no, you didnt.

    And now you're just being silly, I know I'm not good enough for a title - never said I was. I know that I'm just an average thai boxer - that's exactly what I've always claimed as anyone on the site will tell you.

    And no, not only in my eyes. If the rest of the respected and well known fighters/coaches/promoters etc. in the thai boxing community consider it a mickey mouse title, then its a mickey mouse title. It's not automatically worth something because a JKD guy has it lol. A title is a title worth having if you fought the best for it.

    Ie, if someone has a british title at say 65kg, they should be capable of fighting ANYONE at that weight and ruleset in britain. If they're NOT, then it's not a title worth having.

    All of this - ALL OF IT - is stuff I shouldn't need to explain to someone who knew what they were talking about. There are plenty of people on this site who understand that. Guess for people like yourself it's a bit more difficult.

    P.S. mate, try and act your age when you post. I'm 25, what excuse you got?
     
  6. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    My god I was in the fight game before you where even a twinkle in your old mans eye and the guys I mentioned where winning bonefide titles whilst you where still in nappies.

    Winning titled in BJJ under the Gracies organisation. Winning MMA titles on shows that attracted the likes of Dexter Casey. Ian Freeman. Alex Reid. Lee Ramediuos. Lee Murry etc etc.

    Let me let you into a little secret here. Every promoter tells you all the other titles are Mickey Mouse so they can boost you ego when you fight for them. They are not actually interested in you unless you can put bums on seats and if you can the don't give a dam whether you win or loose as long as you keep putting bums on seats and cash in their pocket.

    Your laughable. You know little or nothing about JKD apart from here say and gossip. You have a biased opinion on top fighters and trainers you have not had the priviledge to train under. In fact you can't even hold a candle up to them and the vast amount of knowledge and expeariance the have over you.

    Yet you come on here spouting off as if your some kind of expert in all things martial arts? You have not been living long enough to hold that title and you expect me and others to take you seriously. Your as bad as the Bruce Lee fanatics and that's saying something.

    I'm acting my age young man unlike you who seems to have not rid himself of his teenage testosterone yet.

    But the good news is. The more young bucks like you bitch about how you think JKD is bad, the more publicity they get and the more people you attract to them. That's how publicity works. Why do you think fight promoters get fighters to bitch about each other before a fight? It puts bums on seats simple fact.

    Wake up son. Your getting blinded by doing the very same thing you accuse the JKD guys of doing.

    Laughable is the only thing that comes to mind. Laughable.
     
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Why are you so focused on poor instruction and mcdojo's.

    I've been training 28 years and have never been exposed to either. So my statement was based on my instruction, my technique, my instructors and others I have trained with (and the styles).
    Sure many may not be able to do it, but not in the classes I have been to.

    I don't agree with this either. Sure when you are young, training for competition or living in an area where you are exposed to violence, but at my age I want more. Like I said the fighting bit is easy, especially when there are no rules.
    Although I am interested in very efficient movement and teach my guys to attack vey fast and with violence when needed, I no longer need it though. I train it, but am not bound by it.
    My instructor as well as being a very good at boxing, muay thai, eskrima and CMA is a very very good tai chi exponent. After 10 years his structure and energy combined with his other martial skills make him very hard to deal with. He has trouble with his teacher who only does Tai Chi, and he in turn has trouble with his teacher. I want to be like the head man, who at 56 could probably not give a crap about fighting, however if I was stupid enough to have a go I can guess the outcome.
    Now the Tai Chi art has nothing to do with it, nearly all arts have a great man at the top, a man who hardly seems to use any effort to easily defeat the young buck.

    So sure a martial art has to be able to fight, but you are wrong to suggest that is all that is required. You won't be able to see it, I couldn't as a twenty year old man, but come back in 20 years time and tell me the same thing.
     
  8. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    As if age has anything to do with how good a fighter you might be mate. If you've spent that time learning a load of rubbish, then you'll still be rubbish a million years later. Just shows your level of intellect when you have to resort to trying to lord it over someone by simple grace of being older. Lame. I thought people stopped that when they left primary school.

    And titles don't work like that, another indication of how little you know about the fight game. A promoter of a show has to get the bouts sanctioned by one of the main sanctioning bodies if they want it to be a title. It's got nothing to do with the promoter because he makes no direct money from the sancitoning. In fact, he has to pay more money for the respectable ones.

    As it is, that's all besides the point since I KNOW (as does most of the other people in the biritsh thai boxing community) What the titles worth having are - both in country, europe and worldwide. That's not a personal opinion or propaganda spewed forth by a promoter (as if it worked that way anyway) that's simply common knowledge amongst those involved with a sport at that level. Most of the guys who have titles in thai boxing in britain train every day in thai boxing as well as bring thai coaches to britain and spend copious amounts of their time training in thailand as well. Yet you think bob breen trains guys that can compete with them as well as apparently challenge thais themselves? Laughable mate - please, make an account on axkickboxing.com or muaythailand and tell people that - i just want to see the reaction you get.

    Now it works almost the exact same way in kickboxing and boxing. I don't know so much about BJJ but since bob breen claims to teach a school that specialises in striking, I doubt very much that his guys are capable of competing with pure BJJ guys on any sensible level either without them actually going TO a BJJ place on the side. What your saying is simply moronic, that guys that train with bob breen can, despite being apparent jack of all trades, can compete at the very highest level with the guys who specialise in certain areas. Bull crap.

    If that were the case his guys would be rockin UFC since even THOSE guys can't bloody well compete with thais in the striking stakes. There's a lot of money in it and human nature would win out - if they could do it, they would do it.
     
  9. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    Well believe it and believe that there is good reason for it. one that will leave an average thai boxer like you left black & blue or dead no matter how big he talks.

    I don't consider JKD as being the jack of all trades but knowing how to adapt to your opponents weaknesses is a valuble trait to have in it. So rather than the irrelevant arguement "whether Bobs guys can beat thai boxers in their own sport" (which is just that a sport) rather you need to consider the possibility that Bobs guys are more likely to know how to use the weaknesses of the sport against its practitioners in a live senario.

    The arguments about titles are irrelevant and childish. Titles are here today and gone tomorrow. You are given time to prepare for them. During that time you may even be too exhausted from your event specific training to be able to confront a beat down let alone survive it. You do not grow with titles that you had. But with Taichi you do and gain an understanding of wholeness in martial arts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  10. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    and If you want to talk about fighting first before you bridge the gap to completeness and the artistic endevour of martial arts. The simplicity of JKD is key to this. Sifu Tommys Carruthers speed as you see in this clip is great! But he is interested in directness and teaching to fight not spar. u think a man with his speed could not take the sport route??
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ3bj3HY_wQ&feature=related"]YouTube - JKD Tommy Carruthers 4m[/ame]
    this was filmed when he was 45. His instructor Sigung Ted Wong RIP was in real fights that even though he survived it cost the life of a good friend of his back in the days when he used to train with Bruce and other students. All through his teachings he realised the importance of this and how being able to dettach from typical ring sparring mentality in life and death situations was something he stressed the importance of. Thats why Tommy shows his agenda to his students is that they are training to be fighters first not philosophers or sportsman. In order to achieve this his focus is to internalise. Look inside to achieve virtuosity in a few things that matter and you can make part of your instincts. U are then in a position to philosophise all you want.

    Please note I'm not saying one cannot do the same with Muay Boran, Silat, Pungomot or any other art! I just have a preference for the JKD structure and Bruces methodology in his art for my immediate environment and I believe in Tommys way of teaching it. If you go and see the quality of his students you'd say he must be doing something correctly despite what people may say!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  11. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    That "speed" isn't hitting with power. There's a big difference. And don't spout the "speed = power" argument at me because I probably know it better than you do and there is no way in hell he's ever hitting ANYONE, even an unsuspecting person fast, with power, using that technique. It just looks like typical Wing Chun inspired bullcrap.
     
  12. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    For the targets he aims for power is of second importance speed is first. You are obviously too accustomed to hitting legal targets only so you put power first...

    ...and if you doubt the power he is capable of there are former pro fighters who are ready to testify his strikes are capable of making your heart stop!
    Eh?

    Power = the rate of displacement of force
    Optimum power is reached at %70 of speed and %30 of maximum force
    so I'm not sure what you think you know better than me?

    Its not acutally! The trapping he teaches are actual strikes and this was just a demo from 2005 he doesn't teach or perform that way now. Infact he told me he personally hated how he looked in most of those demos. the purpose of my posting the clip was clearly missunderstood by u.

    He does teach a modified version of Wing chun more approrpiate for the average person to make use of. But his teaching of bruces later stuff which is simply put "Fencing with your Hands & feet" Has virtually NO WING CHUN inspired stuff in it. The trapping is seen as a failed offence and he teaches better ways of dealing with it. Also Bruce was moving away from that stuff as it broke the structure he was assuming in his later life. They both are more than capable of doing it though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  13. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    brown eagle... is that like a dirty sanchez? :)
     
  14. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Master Betty. Like I said. Your laughable and blinkered. So do you think a Thai Boxer would fair well against a seasoned FMA'er with heavy stick in one hand and knife in the other? I suppose you would. I'm sure you firmly believe no other art would fair well against Thai Boxers not even the Philippine Yaw Yan team who beat the Thai team in the Thai Boxing Event at the ASEA Games held in Manila in 2005? But hey that's just a Mickey Mouse title as are the commonwealth and olympic titles people win.

    So you don't get confused. The ASEA Games are The Asia Pacific version of our commonwealth games and is run by the Mickey Mouse Olympic Committee ;)

    Blinkered and laughable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  15. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    yeah you probably know a lot about every martial art more than anyone eh! ;)
     
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Just to throw a further lobster into the pot, ALL of my job related training is geared towards working on the street out of necessity.

    We do not spar either.

    We DO perform drills under pressure.

    Sparring is useful, but not an end in and of itself.
     
  17. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    yeah but according to Master Betty you probably got a Mickey Mouse Job anyway and if you don't spar for the ring in Thai Boxing and are a bonefide champion of a title only he authorises your doing it all wrong and its Mickey Mouse according to the all knowing never won anything Master that is ;)

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  18. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    The WHAT games!? Lol Where on earth did I even imply that the thais could beat people at anything other than striking? Now you'redoing exactly what I said earlier - putting words in my mouth.

    Look bud, you obviously can't answer my question as to what titles these people have and have obviously NO knowledge of how the fight game actually works. You have the attitude of a TMA'er watching UFC and thinking he knows whats going on. Just leave it. Every time you post you come up with either something I didn't say to begin with or say something that is so wrong about the fight game I have to correct you.

    Don't argue for the sake of arguement mate. If you don't like my opinion of JKD fair enough, but stop acting like a socially inadequate teenager because you feel the need to win the internet.
     
  19. Browneagle

    Browneagle Valued Member

    I'm with you on that too. I personally believe in 1 on 1 sparring for both specific and non specific training even though Tommy and some others don't advocate the not so specific stuff. I respect his approach but I have my own thinking on it.

    Make sparring part of yourself, not yourself part of sparring. I'm also a believer that having a strong competition background means your skills are infact trasferrable as long as you're not too proud to let go of a few things or at least shelve them. I had to shelve the MT low round house kick as I noticed as powerful as it was some good JKDers and internal martial artist I trained with were able to stop hit and intercept it. But I'm grateful that I learned it because it gave me ideas to further refine my JKD hook kick and I'm still working on that. Its not as damaging as a low ankle / shin-knee side kick, but a higher percentage kick and more economical one from certain angles than they are.
     
  20. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Actualy young man you have yet to answer my question on how Bob Breen's guys can't spar. You asked for titles. I gave you them. Whether in your ever so expert opinion you think their Mickey Mouse or not. They got in the ring/cage/mat and strutted their stuff up against the best that was thrown at them on the day. How you regard them is neither here nor there and by your own admition of not being good enough to win a title for some obscure reason makes you an expert.

    And as for you being some kind of expert in the fight game? Well let's just say I was competing and running national and international tournaments before you even knew you would grow hair under your arms.

    Many of Bob's guys have won numerous titles all be it not to your so called expert liking. But the won them and it involved something you implied they could not do? SPAR! So again I ask. How is it that you in your expert opinion believe they can't Spar?

    Answers on a post card please.

    And if you like you can tell us how your such an expert of the fight game. What have you actually done (apart from knowing someone who said this or done that) what have you actually done in and for the fight game that makes you such an uber expert.
     

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