Jeet Kune Do-frauds

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by ma-observer, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. ma-observer

    ma-observer Valued Member

    I believe in this 100%. However... this is not a free card for anyone to just take what they know of JKD and start teaching. Calling it something else and pretend they've invented something new. Thus trying to avoid any criticisme. I would not be so much opposed to this if such a self proclaimed instructor is truly skilled. However, a lot of them don't take the effort of homing their skills and start instructing the lamen that takes his words for granted.

    I start this thread and hope to expose those instructors that either teach under the name of JKD or teach JKD under a different name without proper skill or training and without certification and lineage.

    I'll submit the first one.

    This is the self proclaimed instructor from The Netherlands called Shaun. He calls what he does 'Shaun-Ryu'. If you observe his videos you can see that he's obviously using JKD-principles. He uses them in such a way that they're completely perverted. Clearly he has attended some classes. But I doubt he paid any attention or understood what he was being taught. Anyone with proper martial arts training can see that this guy is poorly skilled at best and his knowledge ranks just above that of a lamen.

    Anyways, for your viewing pleasure visit: http://www.youtube.com/user/Shaunic02

    Here are some examples of what he calls trapping:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqom9wAC1Qc"]Self defense for all Part 7[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAirXd8d-mY"]Self defense for all Part 7.5[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  2. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    I'm not really sure what your problem is with the guy in the video. Whether or not he has used JKD principles is immaterial, as he is not claiming to teach JKD, but Shaun Ryu (admittedly, he couldn't have picked a more stupid name....). Plus, I've seen a lot worse than what he shows in the video's.
     
  3. ma-observer

    ma-observer Valued Member

    If I had left out the part "...or teach JKD under a different name...", then you would have been right. But it's in there so in this thread it is material. You're free to comment on what you see or you can share that worse that you've seen here.
     
  4. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    I don't really see why that is a problem exactly. I understand where the frustration lies, but I am sure it is the same frustration that may have been shared by many when Bruce Lee developed Jun Fan Gung Fu. I'm sure there where many wing chun practitioners that felt very much the same as you do. In fact, what you said about Shaun:

    ...is exactly what people were saying about Bruce Lee.

    Admittedly, Bruce did inculde a lot more than just wing chun into JF kung fu, but htis is how martial arts develop. From the video's that you posted, one could possibly conclude that all Shaun is doing is JKD of some kind. However, it is possible that a lot has been ommitted from the video, so calling somebody a fraud on such weak evidence is risky in my opinion. It is possible that Shaun has many other elements to his teaching that we have not seen - elements that would facilitate him teaching JKD under a different name (which is really what Bruce lee did - Shaun has Shaun-Ryu, Bruce had Jun fan). I'm not trying to defend Shaun as such, as I don't know the guy or even care about what he's teaching. but, I think calling him a fraud based on a coule of videos is very presumptious.
     
  5. ma-observer

    ma-observer Valued Member

    I don't know your background. But if you have more than a little knowledge on the biomechanics of boxing, wing chun, jkd and the likes. You can see by analyzing the movements he lacks in the basics. Now you're not going to tell me this guy is so brilliant he has developed a whole new way of moving? Whatever anyone comes up with, it will always be subject to the laws of physics and nature. If you look at it from a biomechanical point of view his movements will not effect the result he claims they would. Have a look at this and tell me what you think about the elbowing he does. Honestly, does that strike you as someone who knows what he's doing? It almost looks like he's giving the guy a massage.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtHFxHc6V_g"]Selfdefense for all Part 6[/ame]

    Have a look at what he does at 0:52 in the next vid. You have to admit that that is a fantasy move altogether.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsQAQSd_UHE"]Selfdefense for all Part 5[/ame]
     
  6. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member

    Looks like he's just ****farting about with friends so far..
    He's subscribed to every chosonninja channel there is by the looks so he may just want to be another you-tube master-bater instructor type.

    As soon as he starts with fake statements of training history and charges money to those stupid enough to pay, (he may be on that road "look out for seminars" his page says) then he's crossed the "Bullshido" line.

    Untill then, just another untrained you-tube wannabe instructor :)

    edit; and yeah i agree, "self-defense for all part 5" is a good way to get yourself KTFO :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  7. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    Don't get me wrong, im not saying the guy has skills - clearly he has a long way to go in his training, and the very fact that he is posting instructional videos on youtube at his displayed level is deplorable. However, I don't see that he is necessarily a JKD fraud - he doesn't mention the name JKD, he doesn't claim to be a grandmaster, and isn't making money from what he is doing (as far as I can tell). All he is doing is making some pretty poor instructional videos for the youtube crowd.
     
  8. ma-observer

    ma-observer Valued Member

    That he doesn't name what he does JKD, doesn't mean that what he does isn't fraudulent at best. What else would you call it when someone takes an original idea and tries to pass it off as his own?
    And for the part that he isn't making money from it. As mentioned on his channel his intention is to give seminars and I doubt those will be for free. These so called free lessons are just a marketing tool meant for the unknowing. He doesn't title his vids "Selfdefense for all" for nothing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Mayhap, but WTF is it doing in a JKD forum then?

    Serious question - have you read the Tao of JKD and did you like it?

    Anyone deserves payment for a service. The reward for GOOD service is a repeat customer

    What is YOUR lineage seeing as you are so quick to throw bricks?
     
  10. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Rather than expending so much time and energy slagging off someone who may or may not, in your opinion, be a fraud, why not just direct people to more worthwhile material. If someone asked me my opinion of him, I'd reply "Meh." And redirect their attention to something like this:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFVK7fuhnU4"]YouTube - Paul Vunak trapping skill[/ame]

    Seriously, ignore the "frauds" enough and eventually they go away.
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    ^THIS^

    No matter what the person claims, the mechanics tell all. If they are good and I can learn then quite frankly they can be calling what they teach Teras Kasi* and I will still train with them



    * 100,000 Nerd-points to anyone that gets this reference without looking it up
     
  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Glad I'm not the only Star Wars nerd on here. :D
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    YAY!!!!!! your points are awarded!!!!

    Sadly I also claim Mok'bara as a style.......
     
  14. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    The problem I have witht his is that you are painting out this guy to be a fraud. From what i see he is not deliberately deceiving anyone. Whilst he may be naive about his own abilities, It;s not like the guy is Ashida Kim or anything. of all the people I could think of to shun as a fraud, this guy is not it.
     
  15. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I don't see the problem.

    He does not say he is JKD and I see no JKD.

    If you think je is teaching JKD be I good or bad. You need to get back to training.

    I must admit Shaun Ryu is a rather stupid name but if people want to train with him who are we to judge and who really gives a dam.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  16. ma-observer

    ma-observer Valued Member

    "All evil needs to prevail is for good people to do nothing."
    You let these things go unchecked. Before long the general public won't be able to tell the good from the bad. It's pretty obvious for the people on this forum. But most people aren't martial artists and will believe anything you tell them. It's not unlikely someone will think that what this guy teaches works and goes out there with false confidence and gets himself hurt or worse. If what I do would make up that persons mind before he gets into it and sends him to a proper instructor who doesn't teach him something that would be likely to get him hurt. Then all effort and criticisme was worth it. Ofcourse there aren't any garantees. But little differences (or in this case more than a little) can result in great effects.
    To post stuff like this in forums might yield some search results for people doing background checks and will give them something other then a sales pitch.
    It wasn't my intention to dedicate the whole thread to this guy. Just a few posts in here would have sufficed. For that matter has it served my purpose.
    Use this thread the way as in the description if you like or shun it.
    I'm done for now.
     
  17. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    And you are????

     
  18. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    sooo....... why do you have a personal vendetta against this guy. you have posted nine times here, all of which have been dedicated to besmirching him. Is it that you saw a video that you didn't likem, or do you have a personal reason for not liking him?
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    TOS unfortunately prevent me from answering!
     
  20. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    ma-observer, there are three things wrong with this thread:

    1) No-one particularly cares.

    2) You sound like a Bruce Lee nut.

    3) Ever heard of libel?
     

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