It's On

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Simon, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    To be totally fair though, Leonard did have a couple of iconic wars, which i can't say for Mayweather, granted, i would put him on the same level as those guys, dude is legit one of the most skilled dudes to ever lace up a pair of gloves, granted though, some of the conversations I've had about Ali have near given me a brain bleed with how much of a Pedestal he's been put on.
  2. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    I think Pacquiao should've been given a little more credit regarding their fight.
    He hurt Mayweather twice and he made him lose his famous crab stance and endure flurries against the ropes.
    Also the bout was more competitive than most guys think.

    This is here a playlist with the fight in slow motion for anyone interested [ame=""]ROUND 1 (Slow motion, No Audio) - YouTube[/ame]

    This is also an interesting article that put things in a different perspective.

    I believe Pacman lost, but I don't know how things would have played up 5 years ago, when he was a tad faster and more explosive. After all it wasn't only a matter of skill but also of reach, height and size disadvantage that Pacquiao had to find his way through.
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  3. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Right. Granted, I've not seen but bits and bobs of the Mayweather/Pacquiao fight - the last 3 rounds or so - but it kinda seemed that Pacman was trying to fight Mayweather's fight at times. Just didn't seem charachteristic of Manny's fighting style at'tall. Even when you compare his outing with Mayweather against a more recent bout such as with Bradely...just didn't seem like himself.

    Discounting the torn rotator-cuff, did they drastically change something in his approach to this fight? I'd think Roach too wise for that.

    Any road, apples and oranges. That's the trouble here with these two. Oil and water don't mix well and neither did they.

    I enjoy cuban fighter's with their lightning quick reflexes and ability to avoid damage. I also enjoy seeing power hitters like Gennady Golovkin, for example - warriors - for different reasons altogether.

    But I wouldna want to see them in the ring together.

    To be honest, the modern day boxing ruleset favours the stick and move style more than brawlers but in the case of Mayweather ( and as it was with Pacquiao till recently ) there's more to it than styles. Superior athletic prowess suited for the sport.

    The same could be said of Pacquiao - he had both power and speed - the combination of which first caught his trainer's eye.

    Being on the short end of height and reach was nothing new to Pac - he's had some of his best moments under such conditions.

    Pacman in his absolute prime? Thing is Mayweather is closer to being the Mayweather that fought Oscar than Manny is to the Pacquiao who fought De la Hoya so we'll never really know for certain, though my thinking is Mayweather would've come out with the W.
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  4. puma

    puma Valued Member

    The thing is, Pacquiao has always been blown out of proportion. It was always asking too much of him to beat Mayweather. People forget - Mayweather is 38! 5 years back, he was 33. Pacquiao has struggled with several fighters in the past 11 or so years. Morales out-boxed him first time, in probably his last great performance before it all got too much, Marquez obviously, Bradley, although I believe he lost both fights to Pacquiao, had his moments. Cotto, up until rd 4, and quite obviously weakened. So quite why people thought he wouldn't have any problems against one of the most gifted and smartest fighters ever baffled me to be honest. I said a few years back on here people were not being fair to Pacquiao to building him up to a god-like figure, because it is a lot to live up to, and he was never, ever, going to look great against Mayweather. Who does? Pacquiao, was, is, a tremendous fighter. He still beats most, maybe all, the other welters. He has given us some fantastic nights. Actually, the Mayweather fight was actually a good fight. It's just that people go over the top, saying stupid things like, "It was as boring as crap." Greatest fight ever? No. But still not bad by a long shot. But Mayweather was just a step too far for Pacquiao, but that doesn't take away his achievements or the fact he is a great fighter in his own right. And why people get mad at Mayweather for winning, I don't know!

    I don't think Freddie Roach helps Pacquiao much either. I think Pacquiao's talent has carried them both to where they are, personally. And, I'm not sure that Mayweather's dad is much better. Floyd certainly doesn't seem to listen to him much! Maybe when he was younger, but now he seems to ignore him and do his own thing.
  5. puma

    puma Valued Member

    That's maybe true, but only because the difference in level then between Leonard and the rest wasn't that big. And, other than Duran, Benitez (so under rated, great fighter), Hagler, Hearns, Lalonde, Mayweather Snr, (who gave him some trouble actually), maybe a couple of others, how many great fighters did he really fight? I know he is bigger than Floyd, but I don't think that Leonard could have had the 48 fights that Floyd has and remained undefeated. I really don't. And Floyd has given us some great nights. People forget that. The Gatti fight, Corrales. I mean, wow, the Corrales fight. At the time that was incredible. There have been lots of brilliant nights. Not really any wars, but he can get rough and dirty when need be too. I think he'd be undefeated in the Leonard era too, personally. The only real problem I see would be Hearns. 15 rounds would also have suited Mayweather I believe.

    I agree with you on Ali. I actually, and people will jump all over me for this, don't believe he meant the rope-a-dope thing on Foreman. I think he was in over his head, against an absolute brute, and couldn't believe his luck when Foreman got knackered and he managed to KO him. Who on earth would purposely let Foreman hit you for 8 rds? Great fight, I mean, it still gives me goose-bumps watching it. Unbelievable. But that couldn't have been Ali's intention. I don't believe it.
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Hearns takes Mayweather IMO
  7. puma

    puma Valued Member

    I think he was actually a better boxer than given credit for. I mean, everyone talks about his right hand, and rightly so, but he was extremely skilful as well. He had all the tools to do a number on Hagler, but fought the wrong fight. Well, wrong for him, absolutely fantastic for us!
  8. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Yeah, Mayweather is a much more proven quantity, but still, he never had an iconic fight, which will hurt his image, there was never the rival to push him, which will lead for his legacy to suffer, he has much the same affliction as Klitschko, he's just clearly so far ahead of the division he rules that he is reduced to nothing more than a good prize fighter, where as ironically, if he had more flaws as a fighter, perhaps even a loss, avenged of course, he'd be much surer of his place in boxing history.

    As for the rope a dope, i tend to completely agree, it seems almost insane to retroactively claim covering up against the ropes while someone flurries at you is a tactic, as his legacy has often stated, although i would point out if it was a tactic, it only ever worked on Foreman, but even still, on the opposite side of the spectrum of Ali fights, if you watch any of the Norton fights, or his match against Jimmy Young (An incredibly underrated fighter in his day.), you can see him not so much being beaten as much as being totally out boxed, but of course, most casual fans struggle to remember those fights I've found.
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He beat Leonard in the 2nd fight too if you ask me
  10. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Yeah, even Leonard admits that. And, if it was over 12 rds like today, he would have won the 1st one.
  11. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    I really think that, despite the Leonard fights, the match that most confirms that Hearns was technical as all get out was the Benitez fight, i mean, he spent the last 7 rounds with little more than a jab and he still out boxed someone who'd earned the nickname "the bible of boxing"
  12. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Change of subject, but I've just watched Mayweather v N'dou again. This fight doesn't seem to get mentioned much. I believe N'dou was 31-0 with 30 ko's or something ridiculous at the time. For all those who say Floyd ducks people, is too defensive, has never had to dig deep, can't punch, is boring, etc, you may want to look at this fight and then see if you have the same opinion. People forget about these fights he's had - or they just don't know about them.

    Has a fighter his age ever been considered the absolute best at the time? I'm trying to think if anyone else was considered número uno at 38, not just in their weight, but in the sport.
  13. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Being fair, that fight was pretty early in his career, he wasn't really a marquee name at the time and had less choice in opponents, but you are right, the guy is something of an anomaly given his age and career.
  14. puma

    puma Valued Member

    He could pick and choose a little more than others though due to the exposure of the Olympics. I just don't think people realise what an attacking fighter Floyd was before his hand troubles. And to watch his evolution to now from the start of his career is quite incredible.
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He also took on Hatton who was undefeated and a very heavy hitter....he won which I have a hard time forgiving him for!!
  16. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Was the Hatton fight before or after Floyds pathetic attempt to make us believe he'd retired? Can't remember if it was after this one or after De La Hoya?
  17. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    I'm pretty sure it was immediately after, but he went right on claiming he was retired, IIRC.
  18. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Yeah, think you're right.

    We keep talking about Mayweather, but what do we think Pacquiao should do now? I say take it out on Khan, just for my own amusement.
  19. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    There is as much chance of it being as boring as there is of it being funny though.
  20. puma

    puma Valued Member

    You think so? I think it could be fin while it lasts. I'd expect Pac to stop him. I don't like Khan, but he is never dull, I'll give him that.

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