Isshinryu

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Light123, May 14, 2008.

  1. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    This is twistingtiger4 posting LIVE from Wonderland.

    What are your thoughts about isshinryu?
     
  2. animefreak88

    animefreak88 Valued Member

    I'm a 1st dan in isshinryu (would be a 2nd dan but i had a 1 year hiatus from training about 2 years after getting my 1st dan). I love the style and feel that at its core it is a very well rounded style. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the politics between some of the different organizations have hurt the style's unity and identity, but on the flip side, has made it easier for eager students to find the open-minded side of isshinryu that I feel makes it such a great style to learn. Since the style focuses on maximum efficiency for minimum effort, it has the potential to really encourage students to analyze techniques to understand if/why they work. Although the early learning curve is a bit steeper at times than some other styles, it is a fair, well-rounded curriculum that covers a lot of bases. The well-rounded nature of the curriculum makes it a great style in and of itself (has kata, good self-defense mindset, but the potential for sport for those who prefer it) yet simultaneously makes it easier for an experienced Isshinryu karateka to transition into another stand up style. For example, i've had several friends in isshinryu that have added american kenpo to their training, and i myself have added WTF taekwondo to my training. In all of these cases, our well-rounded isshinryu foundations have made the transitions incredibly easy.

    Overall, I think isshinryu is a great style with a lot to offer to new and experienced martial artists, and when taught properly, is one of my top picks for new martial art students looking for a traditional style.

    Now, I know what i just wrote seemed more geared towards my thoughts on isshinryu for newer students, so i'm going to try to focus more on experienced martial arts of isshinryu and other styles aswell. Isshinryu is an okinawan karate style. Although its stances are more upright than some other okinawan karate styles and it may be softer than some other forms of okinawan karate, the fact remains that isshinryu is a mostly linear, forceful style with rooted stances.
    The linear aspect comes from isshinryu's desire for a simple, easy to apply strategy. If a single well-executed middle block followed by a single well executed reverse punch to the solar plexus can incapacitate the opponent, then there is no need to attack 3 other vital points along the way. This isn't to say that attacking other vital points along the way isn't effective, because it is. It is merely to say that the isshinryu mindset accomplishes this in less techniques, which makes it simpler. The idea is that this simplicity is a better bang for the buck and easier to actually apply. If it is easier to actually apply, then it is more likely to be applied by the karateka seriously should the need ever arise.
    Accompanying the linear nature of isshinryu, is the fact that is a forceful style with rooted stances. The rooted stances give the karateka access to a lot of power which is then transferred into devastating snap techniques. Many of the techniques move in quickly but gently like a nice breeze, but become a mini cataclysm for the split-second of impact, only to then be retracted like a gentle breeze again. This idea is evidenced by the practice of Sanchin kata within the isshinryu curriculum. Often, isshinryu students are encourage to have a level of tension so great in their techniques at impact, that it is sometimes referred to as split-second sanchin. When executed properly, this powerful snapping of techniques is very precise and controlled, highly impressive, but still appears to be more forceful than some other martial arts.
    It is easy at times for an isshinryu student to focus so much on how isshinryu is different from other okinawan karate styles (more upright stances than shorin-ryu or goju-ryu, its parent styles, for example) that the student can lose sight of the aspects that isshinryu shares with its fellow okinawan styles (the stances are still rooted for power, for example). This was something I became increasingly aware of once I began supplementing my isshinryu foundation with taekwondo. By noticing the differences between those styles, it helped me further embrace the pure okinawan aspects of my isshinryu karate which helped take it to another level.
    One last thing I would like to mention, that applies to other harder martial arts as well. As i have done more and more reading, I have come to the conclusion that as a karateka gets older, they should learn to relax more in their training. My sanchin should be harder and more forceful now while i'm young, for example, than it should be when i'm in my 50's. Although vigorous martial arts training incurs many health benefits, it is a short term trauma on the body that our body isn't up to as often as we age. This is something that I think is picked up on anyway by many older masters, as we see them train at full intensity less often, for the very reason that they know their bodies can't do it on a regular basis. Those masters that do train intensely on a regular basis all the way through old age tend not to live quite as long as their counterparts who eased up as they got older (both groups do tend to live good length lives though i should note). I realize there are exceptions and some masters practice harder than most young guys until the day they die and still outlive most of the population, but I bring this topic up because I feel to have a good, thorough discussion of a isshinryu (or any harder martial art for that matter), I wanted to point out that it isn't fair or accurate to compare how the art looks coming from an older student to how it looks coming from a younger student.

    Hope I got the ball rolling for a very good discussion with this post. :)
     
  3. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    I think there are several squillion threads about isshin ryu - try a search (or the related threads links at the bottom of the page)
     
  4. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    i am a high yellow belt in ths style. i have learned six katas, including No Kon. i find the style more whats the word? than the other demo-ish styles I registered for at college.
     
  5. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Is a high yellow belt good? Sorry I have no frame of reference in "Isshin-Ryu"
     
  6. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    Sure. A high yellow belt can break four boards with their heads, so says my sensei. :D

    We left the Alliance.
     
  7. animefreak88

    animefreak88 Valued Member

    belt colors vary between schools. what number kyu are you? i'd imagine 7th or 6th based on what you have said so far? what are the 6 forms that you have learned? if you don't mind my asking, that is. also, among the empty hand forms, which is your favorite?
     
  8. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    Um...kyu? i'm new to that term.

    i've learned these hand katas:
    Taki oko 1, 2, 3, and 4
    Tai San (if thats the spelling)

    And the No Kon bo kata.

    I haven't decided which ismy favorite. Probably taki oko 4.
     
  9. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    O-kay...I'm not Okinawan. :p

    the correct name was Seisan.
     
  10. animefreak88

    animefreak88 Valued Member

    i've heard of a 2nd style that also goes by the name isshinryu. I study the okinawan karate system founded by master tatsuo shimabuku in the mid 1950's. The empty-hand kata in my style are seisan, seiuchin, naihanchi, wansu, chinto, kusanku, sunsu, and sanchin. seisan kata is the first form that is taught in this system. do you have any links to ur school or its karate lineage so that i may find out whether we study the same isshinryu?
     
  11. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    Well, I'm not sure if they have a site. I can look or aSK. But I've been asked to read some history of my style of isshinryu. It is founded by Master Tatsuo Shimabuku. i also know my lineage.
     
  12. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    To my knowledge, there's an Okinawan karate style called Isshin-Ryu, which uses a distinctive vertical fist formation and has a sea goddess for an emblem, and then there's a Japanese jujitsu system by the same name, but no relation.
     
  13. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    Our emblem is the goddess Megami, half dragon half woman, with the three symbolic stars.
     
  14. animefreak88

    animefreak88 Valued Member

    Ok, thank you for clarifying. We do study the same martial art. Isshinryu discussions can sometimes become tricky. There's been a lot of politics within the system since master shimabuku passed away, and that has resulted in the style branching off in a lot of different directions. The ups and downs of that branching could make for a thread of their own, but anyway, it sometimes results in two isshinryu schools having enough differences from one another that it is confusing. Sorry for confusing you. do you have any more information about the taki oko forms though? i do not believe they are taught at my school, that, or they go by a different name at my school.

    also, if you are interested, here are some different branches of isshinryu and their corresponding websites:

    Isshinryu World Karate Association (IWKA), Kichiro Shimabuku - http://www.isshinryukarate.com/

    Okinawan Isshinryu Karate and Kobudo Association, Angi Uezu - www.oikka.com

    Order of Isshinryu, Toby Cooling - www.isshinryu.net

    Although not an official organization, Master AJ Advincula has a very large following, here are some links to sites affiliated with him - www.isshinkai.net www.msisshinryu.com

    My school's lineage comes from Grandmaster Tom Lewis. Tom Lewis was one of the marines who studied Isshinryu from Master Shimabuku on Okinawa (although his term was shorter than some of the other early americans who studied under the master). In the past few years, the school has since aligned with the OIKKA, primarily following the teachings of grand master angi uezu and master reese rigby. Another isshinryu practitioner who is sometimes in these forums, is sensei mike o'leary, and i believe he follows master AJ Advincula.

    Hope some of this information helps!
     
  15. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    This is interesting stuff!

    What kind of information about the taki oko forms would you like to know? I can describe them hen I get more time.
     
  16. animefreak88

    animefreak88 Valued Member

    I'm glad you find the stuff interesting, as for the taki oko forms, i'm mostly interested in their history. Where did they come from? Do they exist in any other styles, and if so are they under different names? (and what those other names are should that be the case). By the way, I take it you are either refining your seisan a bit or learning seiunchin currently at your school right?

    p.s. i will post more interesting isshinryu links when i get the chance.
     
  17. animefreak88

    animefreak88 Valued Member

    By the way, you said earlier that you are not familiar with the term "kyu". In all forms of karate (and many other japanese and okiwanan martial arts for that matter), you have your kyu ranks and your dan ranks. kyu, meaning "boy" represents the non black belt ranks, while dan, which means "man", represents the black belt ranks. Both kyu ranks and dan ranks have numerical values. Among the dan ranks, the ranks ascend in numerical value. For example, 4th dan (4th degree black belt) is higher ranked than 1st or 3rd dan (1st or 3rd degree black belt). The kyu ranks are the opposite though. The highest kyu number is lowest ranked, and the lowest kyu number is highest ranked. Most martial arts using the kyu/dan system have between 6 and 10 kyu ranks prior to 1st dan (black belt). Traditionally, most isshinryu schools have 10 kyu ranks, with white belt representing 10th kyu and a brown belt with 2 or 3 black stripes represents 1st kyu. In general, between all styles with 10 kyu ranks for their system, 10th-7th kyu are beginners, 6th-4th kyu are intermediate kyu ranks, and 3rd-1st are the advanced kyu ranks. The colors that represent the different kyu ranks can vary from school to school though. For example, at my isshinryu school, the kyu rank break down is as follows:


    10th kyu - white belt (everyone begins here)
    9th kyu - white belt with a yellow stripe on end
    8th kyu - yellow belt
    7th kyu - yellow belt with a green stripe on end
    6th kyu - green belt
    5th kyu - green belt with a blue stripe on end
    4th kyu - blue belt
    3rd kyu - brown belt with 1 black stripe
    2nd kyu - brown belt with 2 black stripes
    1st kyu - brown belt with 3 black stripes (black belt testing candidate)

    I've seem many schools though have an orange belt for 7th kyu rather than add a stripe to the yellow belt, and i've seen some of the striped belt ranks replaced by belts of whole new colors in the intermediate ranks. For example, many schools use a purple belt to represent high intermediate 4th kyu and i've even seen a camoflauge color belt for intermediate ranks before. Here is a kyu list again, but in this one, from 10th to 1st kyu, every belt is a different belt, rather than a stripe being added to one end of already earned belts (although in a couple of instances, some of them are previous color belts with a full stripe down the center of the belt, although these belts are made with these stripes).

    10th kyu - white belt
    9th kyu - white belt with yellow stripe through center
    8th kyu - yellow belt
    7th kyu - orange belt
    6th kyu - green belt
    5th kyu - blue belt
    4th kyu - purple belt
    3rd kyu - brown belt
    2nd kyu - brown belt with stripe through center
    1st kyu - brown belt with black stripe through center

    Also, interesting to note, is that sometimes, instructors will add other promotions in between the kyu ranks to represent that progress is still being made (although this is more often done with kids). For example, my first sensei would often give kids a 2nd or even a 3rd green stripe on their yellow belt before their green belt test to help them feel they are progressing since so much is required for green belt.

    As you can see, there's a good bit of room for diversity among non dan rank belt colors, which is why i normally just inquire about the kyu rank or time studying (beginners are often 0-18 months, intermediates 1 to 3 years, and advanced students having studied 2 to 4 years, the overlaps are to take into account differences between different styles and schools).

    Hope you found this just as interesting!
     
  18. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    Ah! So I guess I'm a 7th kyu? I've been training for 5 or so months. But I didn't have a stripe on my white belt. I went straight to yellow, then yellow with a green stripe. Next I'll have my green belt.

    About the forms, the spelling wrong again. Taikyoku was brought from Shotokan. From what I've read, Sensei Donald Bohan taught them to his new students believing the other empty hand katas like Seisan were too hard for the new students to learn. They are broken up into four different forms:

    Taikyoku Shodan
    Taikyoku Nidan
    Taikyoku Sandan
    Taikyoku -- uh, what's four??

    Sensei Bohan isn't part of my lineage. BRather my lineage begins with master Shimabuku, wwh taught Don Nagle, who taught James Chapman, and then comes Jesse, who then taught...somebody, and Steve Armstrong taught my sensei.
     
  19. animefreak88

    animefreak88 Valued Member

    Thank you so much for the information. When i researched the taikyoku forms further, i found something delightfully ironic. Although all of the isshinryu schools near me start with seisan kata and therefore don't even know the taikyoku forms, i have still already learned taikyoku 1 and 3 because the korean versions of taikyoku 1 and 3 are taught at the taekwondo school i attend. And ironically, these forms are taught before taeguk 1 (the form normally taught first in kukkiwon taekwondo).
     
  20. Light123

    Light123 Give Up On Giving Up

    What is your favorite kata
     

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