NO,I have know about the KKSA as long as I have been in Kuk Sool, but the question is does not the WKSA govern the KKSA? Since it is owned by the same person and teaches the same thing and they wear the same uniforms...... But wait is not Steve Seo "World Kido Federation/Hanminjok Hapkido Association Master"? If this is so then the KKSA allows other styles to join them???? This is strange that the KKSA and the WKSA which are basically the same have such different attitudes toward this subject matter.....:evil:
Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about. Master Jun (Norway) started in the KKSA and has been with them for many years until he emigrated out of Korea in 2006 to Norway, after which, he has been listed in the WKSA website. If you are a member, in good standing, at a KKSA or WKSA school, there are plenty of schools who will welcome you. In your case, if you have burned bridges, and have led your students astray, and you (they) are no longer in good standing, don't expect to be welcomed in the same manner.
Nothing strange about it. Steve Seo is Kuk sa nims nephew. I don't think Kuk sa nims going to turn his immediate family away ,period. You and I ain't immediate family. Just out of curiosity, what beef do you have with what the wksa does now anyway, since you are no longer part of the org.? Not trying to be ugly, just curious. I left, could care less what the wksa rules are, ain't bound by them anymore. And Kuk sa nim having people come from Korea from the kksa to the wksa here is definitely not new, albeit he did use to reduce the rank they wore when they came here. I know some who were 6th degree in Korea, came here and were sa bums all the sudden. But that's up to the grandmaster of that system. Anyway, sorry to get off on a tangent, just curious as to why you seemed stressed over the issue.
If you read my posts they are questions because I still have lots of friends in the WKSA. But They can not come over and practice with me or I them with out getting them into trouble with the WKSA. As you stated family trumps WKSA rules. Master Steve Seo has done great things for Kuk Sool but then other Masters that have left that seem to be OK with other students training with other Master and in fact encourage it. Does not Suh, In Hyuk actually own the KKSA or is it like Mu Sool where a different Master started it? If I remember what was told to me ( I am usually have a pretty decent memory) the KKSA was started and Suh, In Hyuk was "owner of it". This is what was told to me buy a high high high level Master of the WKSA. Would they have lied to me? I hope not. So until I can search for Korean Kuk Sool Association in google and it comes up with a different selection than it does I will continue thinking it is "part" of the WKSA. Oh, wait or did the WKSA get rid of the KKSA and actually bring the World to Korea??? :evil:
No, I read your posts. It seemed as it really bothers you as to what the wksa does and doesn't allow. I was just curious as to why, since you obviously do not think too highly of the org. politics. And why can't these friends train withw you? I knew several schools that were having open competitions and training with other folks. I mean, be sensible, if it is frowned upon, you certainly don't have to hand out leaflets at the world tournament for it. I think Vegasmichelle has the right idea if training in different places with different people is what you're looking for. I was just curious as to why you seem so drawn to the wksa's policies.
karma It is because I guess it is my black and white outlook. If the WKSA says do not do it, I never did. Either follow the rules or leave. That is what I did. If I could have done things against the WKSA I maybe would still be in it. But when you have Suh, In Hyuk and Master Alex Suh sit you down with a lot of other school owners and tell you it is either there way or the highway and don't dirty the glass door on your way out, it puts a taste of this is the only way it is going to be. Since I will not be the reason why any of my friends would be "Kicked Out" of the WKSA, I am the one who has refused them to come over to work out. I think it is that I have a problem with people that know the rules and say that they teach and practice RESPECT that just Ascophyllum nodosum over the rules. On VM's statement that I burned bridges with the WKSA. she has NO IDEA what happened and why I left on my own accord. If anything the WKSA started a fire and after I supplied water, buckets, pumps and hoses they never lifted a hand to put it out. So why would I stay on a ship that is burning down and the captain is doing nothing? If you want to know more I would be gladly to send you the details but not on a public board. So back to the original post: another reason I am asking about this is that I would love to train with ALL my KS brothers and sisters and if Steve Seo can come in a train why not allow others to cross train? Why is it OK for VM to cross train in other styles but not others in the WKSA? Is it because certain people just do not care about the rules or is it the WKSA rules have changed? Would you all like have that rule of the WKSA's gone? :evil:
Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill! So I cross-train. LOL. I also jaywalk in New York City. I sometimes drive 56, 57 or a whopping 58 mph when the posted speed limit is 55! I often let the elderly or handicapped "cut in line" in front of me at the movie theater line. At the hospital, when visiting hours are over at 9pm, I sometimes let spouses stay an extra hour. Sometimes, I take 2 napkins in the cafeteria when we're only supposed to take one. Oh, and sometimes, when I travel internationally, I forget to remove chewing gum from my purse (possession of chewing gum is illegal in Singapore). Clearly, I flaunt the rules and regulations of society!
When these discussion move in the direction that this thread has I am inclined to think that folks who are involved are surprised to find that events shaped by Human beings tend to have very Human outcomes. a.) Humans tend to hold others to more stringent standards than they hold themselves. b.) Intimates-- could be family or non-family members--- get cut more slack than anyone else. c.) Golden Rule: People with the gold make the rules. I could go on and on but the single up-shot is that the World is unfair regardless of how many moral injunctions there may be to work to make it a better place. IDN if people realize this but to an outsider such as myself, it often seems that folks are far more interested in exposing each other's supposed hypocrisy and dishonesty---which inevitably comes down to some sort of interpretation or misinterpretation. So I'm left to wonder if KS simply attracts petty, mean-spirited people, or is it a matter that some folks simply have way too much time on their hands? Best Wishes, Bruce
Business is Business and you must remember this: ( thinking about a KISS IS JUST A KISS a SMILE IS JUST A SMILE..... ) If you had a Burger King Franchise and decided to have your own menu, you would no longer have a Burger King franchise! If you do not or never had a WKSA school then the rules seems like something you could just "FORGET". But when you are paying the WKSA for a "Franchise," you follow the rules if you want to keep it. And VM, what would you do if Suh, In Hyuk came up to you and told you that he had heard that you where training in other martial arts and you could not cross train in any other martial art if you wanted to stay in the WKSA? would you: A: Tell him a lie and say you have not been and have no interest in doing so? Then go ahead and continue training in them? B: Tell him you will stop training in any other martial art and then just keep doing so? C: Tell him you will stop training in any other martial art and then actually quit the other styles? D: Tell him where he could stick it? :evil:
None of the above. It seems you have not read or have forgotten the rules. If IHS truly wanted anyone out of the WKSA, there is nothing to be done on my part. This is quite true of any organization. If the GM of any martial art wants you out...what recourse do you have? The rules against cross-training also comes with a caveat...which you conveniently do not mention at all. I suspect you purposely leave that part out to stir up trouble.
I guess my definition of "hope for KUK SOOL" moves in a different direction. I was always very taken with KUK SOOL because I felt that the Chinese influences on the developement of KMA rathermuch received short shrift. I imagined an art where the leader sheparded his flock to delve deeply and fully into the many traditions of Korean practice and preserve those traditions even as we move forward. What I see happening is a growing amount of repression rather than cultivation. IMHO I would think that the leadership would want to cultivate "warrior-scholars" by harnessing individual's natural curiousity about their practice as it fits into the American culture. I think it is easier--- a mistaken ease--- to try to turn Americans into "ersatz" Koreans. If anyone has been following the Educational struggles in South Korea for the last 20 years they will know that there is currently a battle for the soul of the countryin the Korean Educational system. One way to deal with this struggle is to put on blinders and advocate for a blind adherence to methods of the past. What I would hope would happen in the SK Educational system---and the KUK SOOL organization as well---- is that members be cultivated such that they naturally appreciate older traditions rather than have them forced down their throats. Just my own musings FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
Bruce My Main Man ( bad and I mean BAD imitation ) I agree with you, what "Hope for Kuk Sool" I was talking about is it would great if all KMAist brother-en could train together. I came for the WKSA, with out any real Head quarters teachings or guidance. I was only told what I could not do. Never how to something except when it came to the "Business" side of things. I went to every Instructors training I could, I went to every Master to ask questions about things I was interested in, I got welcomed by a lot of them ( all of them NOT in the WKSA now! ). But most of all I was never taught how to teach there style. NO SOP Manual. No teachers aids. Just here is the text books and Go Get Them. I have really learned more from Master like Simms, Timmerman, Kunz, Lee ( both of them ) than the WKSA itself. When I have knowledge I am glad to share it with my brother-en. Why not it is all to help us all. Training with other I have always liked but could not in good thought do or tell my students to do when I was in the WKSA. But would it not be great if Master Seo and Master Harmon and others actually would come together to promote Kuk Sool as the style, not just the organization that they are in? :evil:
