Judging from conversations with various British karateka here and at TheShotokanWay, I think this is probably true at every dojo in Britain, good or bad. But Shotokan in America has fallen much lower. The first Oregon dojo I trained at was exactly what you describe--sure, a lot of the drills were prearranged, but people hit and blocked like they meant it, and if you didn't stop a punch, you'd have bruised ribs to prove it--but it was an aberration in JKA-US Northwest. At the second dojo I trained at in Oregon (which judging from a workshop I went to, was more typical of the region), I went for two years without ever once being punched or kicked with any more solidity than the tap of your pinkie finger. And day in, day out, we were taught to throw kicks and punches so that full extension was one inch away from the opponent. Take a "tai chi for health" class, switch out the forms for Shotokan kata, and add in some tough talk about "we're learning real-world self-defense," and you've got Shotokan as it exists in large portions of the United States.
Yeah, you see in my mind that's not Shotokan. That's missing out some central philosophies of the art. And that's a real shame
Is Shotokan any good? No. Of course I wouldn't say that within reverse punch distance of a Shotokan practitioner though. Bad things are liable to happen to my face.
JEEEZOOS U R SUCH A KEYBOARD WARRIOR! HONESTLY JUST STOP H8IN! U R SUCH A H8R AND ITS BORING NOW. SHOTOKAN IZ DA BEST AND IF YOU DISAGREE I'll be in the alley in 10 minutes. Come alone, dear boy. Yours sincerely, STR33T LL4M4
Ah fair enough. I didn't know about the no face punch rule. Lol, that was pretty much how I approached my kung fu trainer before I joined the class, and he was totally fine about it. Fair enough - those drills were functional. The ones I'm talking about, and the ones I encountered in 3 different shotokan schools, were just robotic drills up and down a hall. So you can see why I say good shotokan schools are fairly rare. Maybe it's different in other countries, I don't know. But the body mechanics during a kata are totally different from fighting. At least the ones I was taught. For example in kata you actually keep your non punching hand against your hip, not protecting your face. And you don't move at all like you do in fighting. You stay rigid and move robotically from one stance to another, rather than coiled and loose like you are when you fight. I haven't seen that DVD so I can't comment. I didn't say all shotokan schools everywhere are poop I was just pointing out that there are a lot of shoddy ones, so it pays to find out what the class is like, though as you said, watching for a while is probably a more diplomatic way than asking a bunch of questions outright.
It all comes back to why you are training in the first place. It seems as though you are more after full contact competition and getting in there and mixing it up. You must understand that Shotokan is more than just that, and the "more" is probably not your cup of tea. Nothing wrong with that, but keep in mind, as others have said, that it is not a bad or inferior art just because it doesn't fit in with your goals and expectations in the martial arts. Shotokan is great art and there are many stylists, including the aformentioned Machida, who are very effective with this style. Shotokan is great, but based on your posts, you may be better off going with something that allows you to thump a little more as it seems that your taste lies more in that area. Good luck and happy training.
I beleive it is, maybe not the ones that jump like bunnies when they spar, but i have seen some pertty intense shotokan practicioners out there. I practice the style for 2 years when i was younger, its very basic, and you practice a lot, kicks, punches and more. I dont like the fact that most school you will never hit the pads, and stuff so you never really know if you are getting stronger with your kicks and punches. I dont like the point fighting system because it looks more like playing tag then fighting, i competed in shotokan when i was younger and the sparring was boring as hell, always stopping when there is a point, at least free fight you can continue to bang after you hit once. I do think its the best traditional art to pratice, it as no dumb musical forms which make karate look stupid. Kenpo school near my house should open a hip hop school instead. They are everywhere with there muscical forms and they look ridiculous. I would really love to challenge and spar with the musical form champ.........
Ok, I gotta ask: How many shoto people here DON'T hit pads of some description more than once a month?
I have no concept of time at all, all I know is I hit pads occasionally. Most lessons in ninjutsu (which has to be a huge exception ) and now and then in karate. Not often ebloodynough
