I've been told in my Japanese callistenics class many times not to punch people in the mouth, so this isn't a general feature of shotokan. He also occasionally sounds disturbingly like John Lennon when he talks. He's still built like a fairly large bull. Anyway, Steve Morris is also something of a one off! He's hardly your average 60-odd year old chap!
Hmmmmmm.........I've just had a shoeing off Anth, ( Global Mod ). Ouch. I'm not sure whether I'm grossly insulted................or amused..............lol. Lets nail a few things ! 1.) Most of my comments about shotokan are tongue in cheek. Some aren't and I usually back these up with an informed comment and critique. Some people like Moose recognize this and understand the difference and as such we often have an intelligent difference of opinion and a good laugh to boot. Rigid shotokanka with no sense of humour or vision outside of their own dojo OR complete idiots, like ' Anth ' don't or can't recognize this SUBTLE difference. Ahem. 2.)The best training for shotokan or shotokan based point style sparring is shotokan. BUT, like MOST Japanese karate styles, it has lost much of it's original ' essence ' and could not be in any shape or form considered to be either a combat art or street effective by the majority of it's practitioners who don't pressure test it and please don't say ' well, our sparring is harder than Muay Thai, because in reality...............it isn't ' I have to say you could apply the same concensus to Shukokai, Wado and to a lesser extent Kyokushin and Goju. How many Traditional UK karateka embrace RBSD in their training ? How many UK ' Sensei ' discuss with their students aspects of the law when enscapulating the scenario of perhaps having to use counter violence in a street fight type scenario ? The danger of getting mugged in your dojo is minimal. 3.) Specific shotokan Sensei. I have not made comments that are not or haven't already been out ' there ' in the public domain. Any comments I make I'm either prepared to supply hard researched evidence or make arrangements to personally resolve a situation to a successful and mutual conclusion. 4.) Shotokan, Taekwondo, Tang Soo Do, have been proven to be more damaging to the neuro muscular skeleton than many softer styles or styles that apply and utilize body dynamics more efficiently and effectively. Is it wrong to point this out whilst explaining the how's and why's !? 5.) Every week, an ad is run in several of my local papers, ' Learn the mystical and deadly art of karate ', but it's not an isolated thing and indeed, in my experience is widely spread.....................the reasoning ? money. People being conned into learning a fighting art when in fact, it's shotokan or something similar. I have no problem when it's advertised AS shotokan, Shukokai, Wado, whatever. It's the misrepresentation that I can't accept or deal with !!! 6.) If some **** wants to censure me, fine, but give specific reasons and a logical argument or series of lucid points...........not just ' Stop style bashing ' I don't appreciate that ' Mugabe ' style of condemnation and condescension. Best wishes Jaae
Lets see. Attacking a moderator = against Terms of Service. Not taking moderation disputes to a Global Mod or Admin by Private Message or email = against terms of service. Personal attacks = against Terms of Service. Take note of that part. Also take note of this: you are not helping yourself and attacking a moderator is a sure-fire way to get yourself a break from the site.
I've checked your full post. Might I recommend that while you are trying to strain a tongue muscle you check out the use of 'Smilies' in posts - they make all the difference to how people read them Interesting group to lump together - our Tang Soo Do is trained very differently to Anth's Karate (we've compared notes), so I'd be interested in a link to any evidence of this? It could be a case of how a teacher teaches rather than the art itself. Oh dear!!!
Like any TMA shotokan requires common sense and good application to do well. The problem I find with most shotokan schools is most of them lack sparring quite badly. Otherwise they are alright.
Just to point out, the post is the guy wants to do karate, not a 'combat art' or 'self defence', he wants to do karate which is his choice. To be fair Shotokan comes strait from the 'original' karate and can be fairly traditional. If it's what you want go for it EDIT: And to point out too there have been various fight videos posted where a karateka has used a karate style guard and done rather well. The main one I'm thinking of is against a Muay Thai fighter...
You were lucky he got to you before I did. Here's a specific reason for you. Personal attacks on one of the mod's isn't on. They're doing the job I asked them to and if you don't like being pulled up for breaking reasonable rules you agree to abide by, then I'll glady help you off this site.
first to dr. moose- havent practiced shotokan in a while. yet clearly remember that we did practice some punching to face during ippon kumite. however the punches to face were not allowed in sparring. second to thecount- while in shotokan any student above blue belt did spar on a regular basis. took a few nasty shots while sparring including some broken ribs (two) from a kick failed to block. third to jaae- have some issues with comments you made about shotokan and would first like to ask if you ever actually took shotokan to begin with? 1. dont attack the mod's. not a smart thing for anyone to do unless they want banned. the mod's are here (among other things) to make certain that discussions are kept civil. 2. see rule 1. 3. do not consider your comments about shotokan to be 'tounge and cheek'. maybe someone else feels different. sounded more like criticism of style. 4. never recall doing 'point type sparring' in shotokan. maybe the years have not been kind to memory. 5. have to disagree that shotokan is not a combat art or street effective. can think of two shotokan practioners that have proven otherwise. back in the day tom muzila was a bodyguard and ian abernathy was a doorman. think doormen are what are called bouncers here in states from descriptions heard before. anyway with jobs like those seems like both of them would have learned something that worked. last yet not least how many different styles have you practiced? throwing shukokai, wado-ryu, kyokushin and shotokan into the same group sounds a little too general to me. same goes for shotokan, taekwondo and tang soo do for that matter. where do you get this stuff from? granted i love to read yet dont go posting something i read ad fact.
Sure, I wasn't saying we don't practice hitting to the face, just that I remember being told not to hit people in the mouth as you end up picking teeth out of your knuckles.
hey dr.moose, sorry for misunderstanding there. think shotokan is a great style and nice to have someone knowledgable about style on map. do you have a favorite kata to practice? mine was bassai-dai. the variation of speed and power really appealed to me.
Agreed punching to the mouth is foolish , but controled punches elsewhwere to the head are fine. I think the problem shotokan has (and i'm sure i've said this before) is that it's probably the second most common style , certainly in the UK , and such a much wider spectrum of quality is out there , add to this the bs politics and you arrive at the mess we're in now.
And yet some of the very top guys in developing UK MA are Shotokan based; Thompson, Abernethy etc. Mitch
It just goes to show what popularity, a quick buck and politics can do to an art/style if there aren't enough people keeping a check on it. And the problems above are hard enough to keep a check on anyway, let alone when the style is one of the most popular in the world. So again it comes down to the artist over the art. You can learn alot if you happen to find the right club. Conversely, you can learn alot if you end up in the wrong club.
I take kyokushin but I think Shotokan is also a great art. Kyokushin is high up there for physical toughness and strength but every art has its good side and down side. Osu.
Ok, you've shocked me a little here - a Kyokushin guy who has something positive to say about Shotokan?! Whatever next?!
C'mon Shoto, it's not every day the style-vs-style bashing gets put aside, don't restart it now (even in jest!).
Let's not start it even in jest' how true-at least dr moosey opened my eyes with a few vids!! I always liked intercourse between the styles! oohherrrrrr!!!! unfortunately, I am old enough to remember shotokan karateka protesting to refs (& getting their way sometimes) about wado karateka scoring ippon with jodan mawashigeri because they were using their instep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! don't ask me when........ I might have to reveal my age hehehhehhhe! Always a big impression me was the kyokushinkai syllabus-first few pages say that all the styles/ryu have faults... osu! yann
