Is Qi / Chi / Ki the same thing?

Hello, sorry if my question doesn't make much sense. Are Qu / Chi / Ki the same thing? How do one develop such mystical energy for both health and martial skill?

 

I would say..................use the search function.There are at least 1 million threads regarding chi etc. :Angel:

 

Qi and Chi are different romanizations of the same Chinese character. Ki is the Japanese pronunciation. As for the rest of your question, search.

 

I guess if we're being pedantic, in Wade Giles, Qi is actually Ch'i, but most people just write Chi. Then it sometimes gets confused with the Chi of T'ai Chi though.

Koyo wrote a definition of the Japanese Ki a while back that made it sound a bit different from how many people view the Chinese Qi or Ch'i:

On another thread, Qi was defined like this:

 

It's not mystical energy, just energy in whatever form it takes. Sure it takes many forms.. None of them magic, just naturally occuring.

This is backed up by the original Chinese character for qi which depicts steam rising from boiled rice.

Qigong therefore is a kind of mindful cooking in contrast to say fast food..

 

Great point Cloudhandz,
Though I would like to point out the original character for Qi is three horizontal lines moving upwards (similar to the heaven trigram of the bagua), this simulated the earthly mist transforming and raising to make clouds.

 

Well if the thread is going to evaporate into hot air, I'm off.

 

At last nights practice I had a visitor who cross trains in karate and aikido. His interest in aikido was in ki in particuler. I was teaching sen timing debana waza in particuler. Debana waza is the ability to see an attack as it arises. It is common practice in swordsmanship.
Each time he attempted to mount an attack I would pre-empt it. I explained what I was doing but he was determined to see it as something mystical , some form of "catching" his ki.
Again I explained if he meant seeing his intention to attack this was so.However he still insisted that I was sensing the flow of his ki.
I explained that at an advanced level we must show a superior fighting spirit and assert control over the fighting spirit of the attacker.
Everything we did that night has a logical explanation yet he still insisted that it was demonstrations of an esoteric nature.
To me ki is simply fighting spirit (in a martial context) He left still conviced that he had seen a demonstration of something quite different from what I believe had been shown.Even when I assured him it was down to timing distancing unbalancing and decisiveness he obviously did not believe it was that "simple"

Below a kokyu nage throw which uses timing distancing and unbalancing to achieve what seams like an effortless throw.Again this is explained by some as a ki type throw.
No mystery just years of training.

regards koyo

 

Great post, koyo

 

Incidentally, I've just been teaching a student - he is a very big and physically strong professional builder. We worked mostly on push hands.

When I first taught him the exercise, a few weeks ago, he commented that it "felt really wierd" and "that his push felt like it had no where to go" and that he'd "never felt anything like it." This would have been my opportunity to mysticise things - to talk cryptically about "peng energy." Instead, I explained about sinking and spreading and taking the push evenly throughout my body. I assured him that it only felt "weird" because he had not experienced someone using omnidirectional (as opposed to unidirectional) resistance before. Luckily, he believed me.

 

This may be the most reasonable ch'i/qi/ki thread I've ever laid eyes upon.

 

AIKI WO HAZUSU

For your consideration. In traditional japanese martial arts there is the term aiki wo hazusu which states during conflict we must "avoid aiki". Aiki is the state of being in tune with the opponent's feelings.Same rythm,timing, distancing, being in balance.

In these circumstances the opponent can easily "catch your intention". Therefore we must break his timing, control the distance and attack his balance.When one can do this the attacker feels at a loss you always seam to be just out of reach or too close.

Other than the balance the areas of timing, distancing, decisiveness and fighting spirit are not physical (as such) Here again the concept of ki can become an item.I understand it as fighting spirit and sensitivety (to the changes in timing, distancing and body movement) Common everyday principles used in many activities other than martial arts.
Understanding and utilising these principles quite dynamic techniques become possible.
Below against a taller stronger attacker I have suddenly shortened the maai (distance between us) changed the aiki (rythm and feeling) and struck to a kuzushi (weakpoint of balance) Those watching see a smaller man topple a much bigger man and come to their own conclusions.
Strange that a major principle of traditional aikido is that in conflict we must avoid aiki.Whenever I see martialy ineffective aikido most of the time it is because the aikidoka is enamouerd of the esoteric principles.

regards koyo

 

Hi koyo,
With ki being more associated with fighting spirit, I'm wondering whether it might have a closer parallel with xin (emotional mind / heart), rather than qi, in Chinese terminology. When talking of subduing an opponent's fighting spirit, this would make sense - controlling and subduing their spirit. Then again, it seems also to have a connotation of momentum in a physical sense too, is that correct? So one would capture and control an opponent's momentum. In this sense ki or qi could mean energy in the sense of incoming momentum.

I think it would be fair to say that these somewhat broad concepts don't really work all that well for me. Some might put it down to cultural differences, but over all, I don't care. As martial skill is my only goal, why should it matter if I have two or more words for something that gets a single word in a different culture? I can still be doing the same art, right? It is just that sometimes I might talk about emotional content and other times I might talk about capturing momentum - "giving the opponent more of what they think they want." At other times again, I might discuss how to breathe. I can't really see why it would matter in any kind of negative way. Although it is a bit of an urban myth that the Esquimaux have 26 words for snow, they apparently do have several terms for describing the state of snow and ice when using it as a building material, and I'm sure greater clarity can only help. At least no one seems to doubt it in any other discipline.

 

Hi JK
In TJA there are two kamae (postures) Katachi kamae, that of the body and Kokoro kamae (attitude of mind). Kokoro means mind,spirit or heart.(xin?)They must not be seen as separate.The aim is to use ki (spirit) ken (technique) tai (body movement and alignment) ichi (as one).
Therefor kamae means attitude of mind and body as one rather than dachi (stance).
It is possible to assert control over the spirit of the attacker both to forestall and draw out. It is possible to do the same with the body and momentum of an attacker.

While we must maintain the trinity of ki ken tai within our own actions in a martial arts context we must assert control over and separate them in the attacker.

So momentum can be used to create suki (openings) phyisical or spiritual in the attacker. Since I make no distinction between body and mind. Ki has it's physical and spiritual elements so must be used in this manner.It is when it is separated from physical application or emphasised as an art of it's own that I feel confusion arises.

thank you for your insights I find them most interesting and informative.
regards koyo

 

Good idea!