Is my style dead?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by ieuo, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. Infrazael

    Infrazael Banned Banned

    Not Japanese.

    Not Chinese.

    Maybe a little mix of tidbits taken from styles A, B, C, D, and E. Like a horrible version of JKD or something, but without any substance or fundamental structure, philosophy of combat, or a framework upon which power generation, technique, and strategy is based on.

    In other words, I would not even classify what you showed as a "martial art" to be brutally honest.

    Techniques in and of themselves do not formulate a martial art.

    Strategies in and of themselves do not formulate a martial art.

    You demonstrated a few "tactics" and a few "techniques" although extremely crude and probably wouldn't actually work on a trained resisting opponent unless you were twice his height, weight, and natural power.

    I implore you to seek proper instruction in a system that stresses hard work, a lot of sparring and tones down the theoretical non-fighting. Hard work mainly being a lot of cardio, strength & power development, body-frame development (a strong structure that supports your style's techniques and concepts), and A LOT of repetitions hitting the pad, bag, and other people.
     
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    That's a very good point actually.
     
  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    And what's more we've now got a contender to take Fish of Dooms title of "Most outrageous hair on MAP".
    No mean feat I think you'll agree.
     
  4. RagingDelirium

    RagingDelirium Valued Member

    looks like you might want to investigate Wing Chun /Tai Chi in the meantime, which would at least afford you the opportunity to sparr
     
  5. The Wiseman

    The Wiseman Valued Member

    Lol the dude spelled it wrong! Its tai ji quan not tai qi(as in ki, chi) quan its great ultimate fist not great energy fist.
     
  6. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Seems as though we have moved to the next step pf the process. While the original question asked whether the art was "dead", I am glad to see that folks did not simply stop there. I agree that it would be a waste to have such passion allowed to degrade through inattention.

    I see a lot of focus on versatility and practicality in the clips, though I would not support many of the conclusions from the standpoint of Hapkido. All the same, I think a decent pursuit might include either an authentic JU JUTSU or AIKI JU JUTSU practice. The downside is that such schools and teachers aren't found on every street corner, but at least it would keep things framed within a Japanese tradition. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  7. Infrazael

    Infrazael Banned Banned

    Ya man the kid has a lot of passion it seems given proper instruction in a solid art he has potential if he wanted to put in the sweat and time.
     
  8. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    taijiquan = taikyokuken

    yiquan = taikiken

    dunno if taikiken actually translates as yiquan, but it's the name they gave it.
     
  9. SDGuy

    SDGuy New Member

    I second this. I respect the fact that the OP has done his best to answer everyone's questions to the best of his knowledge and even posted videos of his system. This leads me to believe that he is being honest with us, and why I want to see more on the off chance that we can see some better material.

    If you choose to move on to a more "main stream" martial art, I would recommend Wing Chun, assuming you can find a credible school in your area. From what I've seen that would be the closest thing to your current style.
     
  10. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Where are you from ieuo? This way we can give you some recommendations from your local area that may fit what you've already been focusing on.
     
  11. gorinnosho

    gorinnosho Kendo Addict

    A yellow finned tuna?

    what could it be??
     
  12. Infrazael

    Infrazael Banned Banned

    FALSE

    black bear
     
  13. Atre

    Atre Valued Member

    ^ meh, less of the junk please.

    OP has been sincere, helpful, not flown off into a rage at any point and HOLY <censor> actually posted videos. I think that actual help from us would be good.

    I would love to see some more extended videos of the style in use if possible, lots of physical stuff for us to see without the discussion (not that discussion wasn't useful, but seeing the movements is best for "oooh that looks like style/art X".

    If this is a troll, he's behaving indistinguishably from a genuine request so I'd go with benefit of the doubt.
     
  14. Kobudo-man

    Kobudo-man Valued Member

    please read the last page of posts atre. We have been sincere, so no worries.
     
  15. Nojon

    Nojon Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein

    Can I sum up/end this thread?

    Yes.
     
  16. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member

    The particular style may be dead, but theres really nothing unique with it, as pieces of it live on (or should i say come from) in a collection of other styles.

    Kind of a mash of some internal arts and a hint of wing chun. Which is what i would suggest (either of those) the practioner pursue further learning from.
    It is in itself incomplete.
     
  17. Atre

    Atre Valued Member

    Thanks, I saw (hence why I know what the OP has been doing) - I just thought we might be going off topic with respect to that...:)
     
  18. ieuo

    ieuo Valued Member

    I appreciate the responses and direction to other arts. I have no problem moving to any style that is similiar. So far it looks like wing chun from most of the posts. I am located in North western U.S.A. I can travel and will be travelling extensively starting next spring.

    I will get more videos seeing as it has been requested, hoever this may take some time. My girlfriend suggested the first two sections of the form and the 9 basic techniques. I may also put up a video with my friend of some light contact sparring, and possible a taekwando guy (possibly)

    I have also noted that there are many posts that say they see no structure or power. There are a few reasons for this. The first and more obvious is that I thought the question was asking for the principle as explained in the belts, which are rules that must be trained with (i.e.e basically like sparring except the focus is on training the principle and understanding how it works). Showing structure power etc. I felt would hinder this. The second and far more important one: I have no idea how to show this through video.

    I asked for helped through a PM on this one. So I may have a solution. I will use the following quote:




    All I can say is any force directed at the body is either moved with, or redirected inside the body. Anything directed at the opponent uses the same methods as above, or methods that are not directly visible. Perhaps something on your end will serve much better. Try this (3 steps):


    Step 1

    Stand with your feet shoulder width apart and have someone push into your shoulder.

    If you position your body correctly the force will move into your feet and push against the ground.

    When you understand this have your partner push into your forearm (held horizontal woth the ground), with a few attempts you should again be able to get the force to go into your feet, and push against the ground.

    If you can do that, then you can understand the following explanation:

    Any force applied is redirected through the body. This can be used to add force to kicks knees punches elbows etc. This is practed until it doesnt take effort, thought, or any ideaal positioning. One should be able to do this at all time and redirect the force in any direction needed.

    Step 2

    Have your partner take any stance and hold it. Notice the position of the feet. If they are anything but parrallel imagine a line extending from the heel and toes so that you have a complete V shape. From the center of each foot imagine a line connecting the feet. You should have a triangle imgained in your head. From the tip of the triangle to the middle of the line connecting the feet, draw one last line. If the are parrele do the same but divide the square. This line is of immense importance in this system.

    With your friend standing in stance, stand on this line with one foot on the center of the line that connects the feet. Make sure you are completely lined up with the imaginary line. push him along this line. This line decides the main direction of attacks.

    Next have your friend attempt tosses or take downs while you stay on this line and apply normal defense work.

    This line also decides the main position to be in.

    Step 3

    Find the center axis that both you and your opponent rotate on. We defend this center axis while striking at our opponents.


    The above is very basic but I believe it will help.

    As for structure again, I think Something along the lines above will help better than anything.

    The main stance is similair to the bagua dragon stance as seen here:

    [​IMG]


    With a few major differences.

    1. The hands are pulled in to one hand length away from the body.

    2. The hands are positioned in the upper center and lower center of the torso (divide the upper body in half, the center of the two halves is what Im trying to point to).

    3. The elbows are held a fist distance away from the body.


    4. The feet are exactly shoulder width and parralell (heel with heel, toe with toe) and the toes of both feet point 45 degrees away from your oponents line (as discussed above).

    5. Both legs are bent at the same degree, with all the weight on the back leg and the front leg resting under its own weight.


    This is a static posture, and a very basic description but it helps me describe a great number of things about the structure in the system:

    Taking the above stance, rotate your upper elbow in towards the center of your body while lifting your elbow and closing your hand into a fist. Keep your hand on the center of your body. This will give you a basic idea on how a punch is to be executed in this system. When you understand this movement you can understand the structure of the system a bit more. Everything has this sort of short distance, straight line rotation. have a friend push on your fist, if his push ends up in your legs you did it right.

    Place both hands in a fully extend punch, you will notice a horizontal triangle shape. This shape is used to deflect our oppents strikes to the outside of our body among other uses. It also gives the punch support from the torso.

    Return your hands to their orginal poistion. Have your lower hand move in the same way as you did before except let your fist rise into the upper position (your lower hand should be in the exact same position as the punch from before). If you pay attention the lower hand makes an angled ascent. this angle, along with the line of the fully extended punch make another triangle. This one vertical. The shape is used in a similair way as the horizantal triangle.

    The basic punch is similair to the wing chun chain punch in that it is launched in rapid succesion, and the non extened hand is open. The major difference is the the punches come from the bottom and not the direct center.


    While I can go into vastly more detail I think I have given plenty. Please play around with what I have given before commenting on it.
    I know from personal experience it doesnt look like much but in practice it has worked very very very well.


    In short:

    Power is first generated by directing force through the body, second by striking along certian "lines" and proper poisitioning, third by striking at the the most vulnerable area availble, lastly by structure.

    The reasoning is you cant always have perfect structure, positioning etc.

    However one should strive to maintain all the above points at all times.

    Hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  19. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Uh...isn't your opponent's aim to direct force into your body though? That's why they'll be hitting you, to try and apply force to your body and internals. Trying to do the same as them seems a little self-defeating.
     
  20. ieuo

    ieuo Valued Member


    Let me be very explicit:


    To get to your body they must get through your limbs and evasions. If they succeed and it is a strike, then you move with it and use that movement to add force to your strike/defense/evasion/etc. Otherwise a certain amount of force will enter you body through the limbs, and this can be redirected as per the very first example.

    Of course not all force in a fight is a strike. It can be a pushing force, a rotating force, a lifting force, etc. All of which can be redirected in one way or another against your opponent.

    Further more I did not say assist their force to its intended location and use, that would be self-defeating. I said to re-direct the force.

    I gave some examples you could try so you would know what I am talking about, please try them. I ask this because in the very first example you would have seen I am talking about something very different than you seem to be.
     

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