Is KSW turning into a sissy art?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by MACA, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    Since i was not alive in the 50's I will conceded to you on that. And yes as I said NOW, I would. But most of the "Kuk Sool" teachers in and out of the WKSA are teaching (in my opinion) the Basic WKSA curriculum. Doing this they need to promote what they teach not themselves. Again just my opinion. If you are a "Master of THIS and a Master of THAT then what are you teaching me to be? A Master of THISTHAT? That means you are teaching me a new style. The style of THISTHAT. So once again I say PROMOTE THE STYLE of THISTHAT!

    If a teacher wants to promote himself in all these fields then let him. I am not saying that they lying. I am saying in my opinion John Q Public really does not care. There are a few people that care and some that will look at the large amounts rank and just laugh. I do neither.

    One last question for now....

    Is it or is it not a trait of Black Belts to be MODEST? :evil:
     
  2. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Don't forget that there are martial art schools nowadays who offer training on several nights of the week, and who have instructors qualified to teach different arts. It's a bit like when you go into one of these big High Street stores and find different brands in their own little area of the store. So when a martial art school decides to offer Joe Public a bit of variety, they might offer sessions in BJJ, Eskrima, Wing Chun, etc., all under one roof but (unlike the High Street store example) on different nights and times, and sometimes with different instructors in charge of the different sessions. Those kind of multi-discipline or cross-training schools can have lots of members, but those members may not necessarily be doing the same classes as one another.
     
  3. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    So True.... So let me revise my statement... PROMOTE YOUR SCHOOL/STYLES!:evil:
     
  4. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    But still - it’s a little different if someone has a 5th Dan in Karate and Black belt in BJJ, and teaches them on different nights, because they are two separate skills. This is not the same as if someone has a Black belt in a style Hapkido, and then gets rank transfer to another Hapkido style. The first example represents two separate skills, but the later example represents the cross-ranking of essentially the same skill set.
     
  5. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Right CZ that was my point back a ways. That lead me to say which my have been strong language that it is for "self promotion" or more specifically to use other arts to promote ones created system, specifically when an association doesn't hold the practitioners of those arts to the same standards. To me it would be like trying to phase out one style over another, while simultaneously using that arts brand to promote the new or main system. Is that not a valid argument?
     
  6. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    But what if someone studies, Kuk Sool and Jujitsu, and creates, I don’t know “Kuk-jitsu”. Shouldn’t they say that their style is a combination of Kuk Sool and Jujitsu. To do otherwise seems not very forthcoming and a bit disrespectful to one’s instructors.
     
  7. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    I think it would be disrespectful to use the name of the original arts to promote the new art. It would be using one brand name to promote a different product, and competing on the premise that somehow the new art was better than the originals. This example is a slap in the face to ones instructor especially if that instructor happened to be oriental.
     
  8. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    Yes, I would agree. However, I do not think that one should conceal their training in another art when making a new one either, the way some people in both the U.S. and Korea apparently have.
     
  9. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Yes I agree, and that's why I'm a little wishy-washy on the subject, personally I think that if a list of ranking is part of ones Bio. then yes it should be listed, if it is used as a tool to promote another art or if it is questionable to begin with, then let's as an industry use a little ethics. That's my take on it.
     
  10. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    So to get more to the point, how do you feel that a Kuk Sool instructor that has left WKSA, and teaches more or less the same thing should promote themselves?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  11. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    If a person knows and can do what is required for a board of let's call them MASTERS, the material that is for the next rank why should they not self promote themselves if they are no longer in the WKSA? They are not saying that the WKSA gave them this rank. They are not saying that they earned the rank in the WKSA. They are just saying that they could and did pass the requirements to that rank. (even if there own judgement is bias)

    This is why I like to socialize myself with Kuk Sool Masters. With other opinions offered it will always make me feel better about my decisions when it comes time for me to promote myself or find an association to fall in line with. Either way it is all about the individual.

    How many students have you seen that could not pass the 1st Dan tests because they did not know the material or were unable to do them as to be recognized? But the teacher passes them anyway as well as the "Main" organization. Testing for 1st Dan and many more are just formalities. It has nothing to do with promotions except for show. The teacher usually knows well before the test if the student will pass. If not how do they get those certificates and uniforms ready before the test begins?

    So here is my 1.5 cents worth again-

    We all know how it is in the "Business of Martial Arts" and we all know what we would like it to be. Everyone has a different opinion.:evil:
     
  12. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    quick side note: if anyone could find a good affordable contact for KS merchandise such as uniforms, weapons and such that person could make a killing if they sold wholesale. Let's say at a 100% margin. (buy it for 10.00 sell it for 20.00)
     
  13. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    I think it is always better to get some sort of outside opinion on your promotion, though, don’t you? I think I may be missing your point.
     
  14. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    This is why I like to socialize myself with Kuk Sool Masters. With other opinions offered it will always make me feel better about my decisions when it comes time for me to promote myself or find an association to fall in line with. Either way it is all about the individual.:evil:
     
  15. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Oh boy! That's a loaded question. :p At present once an instructor leaves WKSA, basically that relationship is severed and no longer does that instructor hold certification in WKSA. That is very controversial, but as soon as that instructor claims rank he is promoting himself. He has to, because no longer does the org recognize his rank. Before everyone gets all up in my face about that, relax it's purely a cover your **** move. Again I would hope ethical behavior would prevail.

    You have a few lone wolves out there of various rank levels, you also have a few who have their own organizations, the difficulty lies with the lone wolves who may not have anyone to certify them, they could approach one of the off shoot orgs and have them certify their rank, but they would have perhaps a situation from which they left.

    So the question is what is ethically responsible for the lone wolf? I think they could promote within their own school up to the curriculum they know. And I think it would be ethical of them to add to their knowledge base and skill level and advance in rank as long as there is a element to keep them accountable for the authenticity of that rank. For example to invite a higher ranking Master Instructor to administer a test, prior to the promotion. This would insure that advancement of that instructors students would not be impeded.

    That's how I see it.
     
  16. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    I agree with you. But sometimes the person who "wants" to promote does not have anyone around them to help with there opinions. This is why I used the statement "(even if there own judgement is bias)".
     
  17. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    .Obewan…Yes, but could you not say that you were promoted to such and such a rank in Kuk Sool without saying you hold rank through WKSA? I would agree that you should not say you hold WKSA rank if you are not in that association.

    Tulsa…so what are you saying? That if you leave as a 3rd Dahn, for instance, that one option is to learn 4th Dahn stuff from books, YouTube, or wherever, and then self promote once you can do well? This does not seem like the best option for a number of reasons. Am I missing something?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  18. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    That, I personally would not say. I would feel better to say I received/earned the rank of _____ degree from the WKSA. If I said it at all. I personally say I hold the rank of _____ in Kuk Sool.:evil:
     
  19. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Well that's where one could find themselves getting questioned about their rank. Those that are remotely located are probably going to find it harder to find a higher rank to learn from. That person may have to travel periodically to acquire the knowledge or, with today's technology, I'm sure there is some way through the internet or video. They may have to think out of the box, right?
     
  20. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    I would say I was certified at whatever Dan in Kuk Sool of course, in fact one would have the certificate to show for it. As far as YouTube or books, no you would need a relationship with a higher ranked Master, but you could communicate over a long distance and meet up periodically.
     

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