I used to do Chito-ryu, but I have a great respect for Kyokushin. Kyokushin fighters are just mentally ill in a good way.
Not always in a good way. But we enjoy being insane. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TftEdkzgic"]YouTube- stomach conditioning[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghcRs9QpZbA"]YouTube- Fight Quest Kyokushin Karate - 2[/ame]
I remember asking my karate instructor once what he thought of another local teacher, whose class I wanted to go to (for the purpose of training more often.) My teacher said "ah him, he trained under Enoeda, he's very good, but teaches more sporty karate than self defence, which is ok if that's what you want." Then he asked why I wanted to train over there. (I panicked, suddenly aware of how it must have sounded like I Was hinting that his class wasn't good enough or somethin, but he was cool with it.) My teacher is very good at karate and I love how he teaches, and the fact he answered without hesitation, pointing out an important difference but with no suggestion that either class was better or worse, before even asking why I wanted to train elsewhere, tells me he's secure enough to handle me not being his student alone. Far as I'm concerned, your judo teacher's reaction screams insecurity, though I don't blame him for being afraid of losing a student if that theory is correct, but it's still not an attractive feature in a martial arts teacher to me. As for how good karate is, like any other art it depends mostly on what you put into it. I know someone who's made their taekwondo bloody lethal because they practice at home a hell of a lot and work out the bunkai (or whatever the Korean would be) in the kata (or whatever the Korean would be ) and isn't afraid to take a dig in the dojang if it means he can experiment with what works. The teacher is very important but it's the student in my opinion that decides how effective an art is for them.
I think this is a central point. First off you need a teacher who has more than a basic understanding of the art (i.e. can do, show and teach more than just the syllabus). Secondly, you need to want to develop it to suit you. Fine, it might work ok for you just how it is. You may find you try to change it but prefer it in it's original form - that's great. The point is that going over what you do with a critical eye will provide insight in to the moves you do, showing up alternate uses/use of body mechanics etc, as well as increasing your understanding. It's a two way process, and both teacher and student need to be invested in the art to truly learn (as opposed to just remember, practice, regurgitate)
Great that your teacher can handle cross training, mine can too, as I said my Sandan crosstrains in judo/shotokan, my brown belt friend crosstrains shotokan/Muay Thai, and a fellow co-yellow belt of mine cross trains in aikido/shotokan (though he is ditching our seminar this weekend for an aikido one being held at the same time. Sensei will have his head for that because our seminars are mandatory), but while our sensei handles cross training, I'll never forget the big grin he had on his face when I told him I ditched the kempo school for his school because I fell madly desperately in love with Shotokan karate-do - didnt want to cross train so I could focus 100% on the art I love. and i loved him as a teacher and he is very very good at what he does and I wanted to be his student alone.
I will occasionally poke fun at other arts in class, just as many instructors do; "Lower your stance, pretend you're doing shotokan!" I'm also always careful to say that any student should cross train if they get the chance however, that every art can teach them something. I do stress that they should check the legitimacy of any instructor and what their status re important things like CRB and insurance are. As an example, the local judo club folded due to lack of numbers and the instructor came to join my TKD class. After a year or so of me enthusing about judo, some of my students asked him if he would start the club up again and he did so, with me as one of the first students. I no longer train as it clashes with Enshin, but I'd be back there in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose. I still buy judo gis from my trade accounts for the judokas. Though they form the core of the judo club, not one of my students stopped doing TKD. Training judo as well enriched their TKD and vice versa, and I'm really happy to see another local MA club drawing people into the arts I love. Mitch
My Sandan would resent that remark. He also holds a 1st degree BB in judo. and he showed me some judo moves. its not as simple as 'just grab each other and attempt to throw each other on the floor' I never said Judo was simple. I have massive respect for Judo and judoka. I said Judo had an inbuilt mechanic that stops it from stagnating in quite the same way Karate has/did. It has a simple performance gauge ie. "can you throw someone when they don't want to be thrown". For sure the fatties can exploit that for a while but it's that sort of thing that keeps an art honest. Karate went through a period where that was lacking (to a certain degree). Its performance criteria became "can you do 20 kata, can you simulate punching this other guy before he can simulate punching you, can you learn techniques that physically match a pre-existing template".
I have to say that judo has its house in much better order than karate, excusing the instructor's comments to a certain extent. But karate is not 'language'. Find a karate class rather than a class in one of karate's many perversions and you'll be fine.
Depends which styles we're talking about. I consider the badly taught, zero contact, hidebound version of shotokan to be a perversion every bit as much as ****okai, go kan ryu and the camoflauge gi squad. So no, I don't mean different styles.
There are certainly more things calling themselves "karate" that I would consider to be perversions than is true of judo. Do I need to dig out youtube vids of the American freestyle "karate" circuit? :hat:
And we need to think very carefully about why this is. We have two japanese martial arts created at about the same time by very similar people, many of whom actually knew each other. One has become a respected international sport and produces formidable champion wrestlers. The other has, while retaining a hardcore of genuine karateka, made itself an international laughing stock. Why? Personally, I used to blame the Japanese for running karate along the same lines as a tree house. While there's some truth to this, it's largely westerners who have done the actual damage. So who's to blame?
The fact that it's easier to safely train grappling than striking? That's probably got a lot to do with it. You could learn judo wearing nothing more than your boxer shorts (or less, if preferred) and still claim to have studied a "full contact grappling art". You need to make many more compromises to train in striking, whether that's big padded gloves, no kicking or no punching to the head.
What is wrong with ****okai. Isn't it a group that practices ****oryu? a very well respected Karate style. Gary
If we are talking about the karate introduced by the likes of Funakoshi etc., then I guess this was formulated around the same time as Judo, however Karate already had many preceding groups already practicing variations on the art by this stage. Judo on the other hand more or less started with a clean sheet of paper which allowed them to codify their "do" in a straight forward way. In essence they created a brand new art which took martial techniques from various Koryu jujutsu and removed the bits that were not conducent with the way Judo was designed to work. No disrespect to Judo's well earned place in the Budo spectrum of things, but because of its makeup and design - it is practiced by most as a sport. It could be argued however that Karate is not a sport *[or at least sport is but a part], and perhaps some of the bad press that Karate has received over the years is because of this awkwardness. Gary [Edit]*
Oh, did I say ****okai? Dammit, I meant shotokai, you know the ones with the willful ignorance of physical law... I'm not so sure. I don't think it's true that judo's sporting nature has had any negative impact on its effectiveness. And with karate, I tend to think that it's the weird karate prejudice against competition that has resulted in its bad reputation. That, combined with the lack of full contact competition. No contact means no basis for comparison. And the traditional line that 'the hands and feet of karateka are deadly weapons', therefore they can't be allowed to make contact, is just silly hyperbole. Possibly, but perhaps the unwillingness to make such compromises is what's caused half of the problem. I'm referring to all that embarassing, iniquitous bickering that happened early on in karate history.
Feel free to enter the Sabaki Challenge next year before you write karate off as a combat system altogether. As for me, I view what I teach as unarmed combat with a sporting aspect, not as a sport that (hopefully) will work in combat. An important distinction. Gary
Nor do I, I wasn't trying to suggest that. It's a lot more difficult to put it into a sporting concept however. As Moosey has already said, to do so takes compromise in some way. Then there is the whole Budo thang - and the true purpose of "shiai" within. Gary
