Is Kali so complete as to be devestating on it's own against any art?

lol, nah I just grabed my brother and used him to break my fall.

 

I think something in dumog , that might not be so much different from other arts, but rather more emphasized is the putting together of hitting, off-balancing, more hitting and finally throwing against an opponent. A common sequence would be a strike to the face to get the guy moving backwards, which would be followed by a trip or a tug on the arm to get him off-balance, then another strike to the face to accelerate his fall and finally a stepping on the foot or shove on the hip to make his fall awkward.

BTW, you know how Bas Rutten says not to allow yourself to be hit in the face with a boxing glove because you don't know where that boxing glove has been? Well, if you've ever looked at the ground in some of the seedier areas of Manila, trust me, you will do anything to keep from falling onto that ground.

 

I have studied Dumog, Kenpo (Not Karate, but the real deal) Wrestling and some Judo not to forget although not relevant at the moment that I done Thai-Boxing for years....competed in what was Vale Tudo but now MMA which I won a British Title in. So naturally I cannot help but to adapt my FMA in these areas/techniques that I already have, based on my previous experience...I like to know I am well covered in all areas, but isn't that what it is all about. It is hard to unlearn something that you already know.

I may not have explained properly, but what I class as breakfalling is anything that stops me from taking the full fall (Thud :cry: ) I often teach rolling, switching and reversing within the throws and takedowns in my FMA. Unfortunately, I do not have much choice, I have to be able to breakfall under all circumstances as Pat often unexpectadly launches me regardless of the surface including concrete :cry: , especially when he is teaching a seminar and I am a willing dummy. (Even when I was 8 months pregnant ) Once, he threw me about 6 ft in the air and my head proceeded to lead the fall with my feet vertically above me(luckily I was not pregnant that time), if it was not for my common 2 hand/arm back breakfall I would have broke my neck, instead I just tore my very thin chest muscle and damaged the tendens at the base of the skull resulting in a deflation of my lungs everytime I turned my head, Soon rectified by my ostiopath but it still hurts today and that was about 7 years ago.

But anyway, I would like to apologise to Gordon (Chenstyle44) this was not supposed to turn into a debate about mats and breakfalls although it has made some intersting reading.

And with regards to suppliers in America not being able to supply the equipment that I do.....that's nice to know, I must be doing something right I do try my best, but I am always open for suggestions from the FMA world on how I could improve the service and items I offer.

But let's get back on subject......Is Kali a complete system.....JKD/Kali...MMMmmmm.....

Real FMA, yes in my opinion is complete....JKD Kali on the otherhand (to me) seems to be missing something, but without training in that environment myself (which I do not have time for, unfortunately) I cannot pinpoint, but can base my opinion on meeting those who are training and teaching the JKD Kali system...I will say based on my experiences, they seem far too busy trying to add other arts into their Kali or Kali into their other arts when instead they should study the FMA in it's entirity and they will find nothing needs to be added and nothing needs to be taken away...not to say you cannot adapt and add your personality to improve your own FMA style.

The FMA to me is like Organic food, nothing added and nothing taken away, it is original and complete while still serving a purpose. Where-as the the JKD Kali is more like your standard GM (genetically modified) food, they are adding something to try and improve it....but no-body knows what or why?

I have also met many JKD Kali practitioners/instructors that have left the restraints of being tied to the JKD groups and ventured out to seek the FMA world for themselves....and can honestly say they have not turned back and have no regrets. It depends how serious you want to follow and learn the FMA. And one thing I have heard some of them say is "wow, I did not realise how complete the FMA is, until I saw FMA'ers through and through, demonstrate their skills"

Although I myself trained in other arts, before discovering FMA which found me rather than me seeking it. I now know I would not have needed to train in these other arts had I of discovered FMA first.

I feel I can draw on my experiences from those other arts that I previously trained in, but purely to adapt my FMA and counter against these other arts not to encorperate them into a system that is already complete. I could say my mentality changed.

The way I approach any art, style etc...now, is from an FMA point of view.

Lot's of love :love:

Lucy

 

Just out of interest how would FMA then translate to an MMA event (obviously not using any severe techniques), would it be applicable? Have there ever been any MMA'ers well-versed in FMA that have fought in the competitions?

 

Dumog and Pangamot, as a matter of fact quite a lot of FMA mano mano systems can easliy translate to MMA, *thinks of combining Dumog with Yaw Yan, a deadly combination* . As for MMA'ers well versed in FMA having fought in the competitions, quite a few of my students have done so to some degree of success, Lucy being one of them. As she mentioned before, she won an MMA British (Vale Tudo) title. Put the other girl in hospital in under a minute. Nice

Regards

Pat

 

Looking back, before I done FMA, I think alot of the arts I trained in taught you do stand and trade too much...Mauy Thai was slightly different and my abosolute favourite prior to FMA because it taught me some good parries and I loved the elbows and knees but I always played to the exact rules.

FMA however taught me to read between the lines and bend the rules without breaking them....the most important was limb distruction...so I still got to use my elbows and knees cause I like to get in close, but with more effect (not so wild, I developed more intent). I used more pressure point techniques to jossle for position and although I learnt locks before hand I found FMA taught me to use and understand them properly, whether standing or on the ground I can make them work or adapt them to make them work.. If something didn't work, flow to the next lock or adabt it to work on different opponents. Attack at all costs, don't let up on them for one moment.

I found for me FMA gave be better entries aswell....it might be that I just understood and enjoyed FMA more, but I still want to thank FMA for these qualities it brought out in me.

A good entry for example is sinawali 6 count...this empty handed is very effective to enter and provide gaps for your following blows or commit to a throw. I learnt to be more 'sticky', without physically holding, manouvering my opponent. I suppose I was manipulating my opponents moves....by encouraging them to do what I wanted them to do so I could counter...this I learnt from FMA.

For example....let them attempt a throw (give them the opportunity) Counter the throw immediately before they are fully commited to the throw and then reverse or roll through the throw using them as your mat, giving you the upper position. (this was something the MMA'ers weren't really doing when I was involved)

Although MMA'ers are looking at all avenues now, 5 years ago it was just ju-jitsu or Thai Boxing with some/little ground technique. We have had some top MMA'ers come to us for FMA lessons and some have even spent time in the Philippines to make sure they are good all rounders in the MMA world.

So like I said earlier, I would say my mentality was different.

Lot's of love :love:

Lucy

 

actually pat, one of gm fernandez's students, henry kobayashi, combines a form of submission wrestling and yaw yan. his group known as hybrid yawyan
have had some success in local mma tournaments.

 

Todd Medina in UFC 5 was the first guy in the UFC to use FMA and JKD. He won his first fight mainly with headbutts and lost his second. He learned BJJ and began to compete...think he's 5-7-0. Whether he would consider himself "FMA" anymore or not is a moot point. Undoubtedly it shaped his fighting to some extent.

I can only speak for the empty-handed FMA I learned (which may be different from others) - to be honest it was quite a seamless transition. The FMA philosophy I've been taught was always to take what is useful irrespective of where it comes from...that coexists nicely with MMA's philosophy.

James E Nicolle who won his fight convincingly at CR8 comes from a FMA background as I'm sure do other successful professional MMA fighters.

 

Stick fighters kick butt!

 

fma

Im sure Ive posted before, but I need to do so again.
I have only trained in two style of fma. Modern Arnis with Kelly Worden via seminars and for four years with Punong Guro Dan Rutano.
The four years with Guro Dan really opened up the whole enchilada regarding martial arts. We really do train in everything and the conceptual framework he uses allows a person to become self sufficient in whatever 'range' or situation you may find yourself in. Provide you put in the time and practice.

Best Regards,
Gordon

 

The dog brother kali-tudo is suppossed to be going to be tested "in the cage"
but do they not use machado BJJ as apposed to a FMA grappling style why is this please. Im only just begining FMA should I train BJJ along side to get a more complete game.

 

Depends on the instructor. If you get an FMA instructor that knows his/her stuff then no, if they don't do the Dumog or empty hand side to it then yes.

Best regards

Pat

 

a lot depends on your instructor. it he's just weapons, then all you get is weapons. if he's all empty hands, then that's all you'll get. choose wisely.

find someone who does the weapons, does the dumog and the mano mano, and who seems a bit slow because he's been hit in the head one too many times

 

I fear the Filipinos. They are strong, they are savage, and they make a mean pork rice dish served with a side of some sort of squashy vegetable.

From what I've seen, you could take a lot of instructors from Manila and put them in the middle of a jungle and send ninjas flying after them and they'd do pretty darn well. I remember one incident of a Eskrimador (Eskrimadrix? Eskrimada? Eskrimadress? I don't know the spanish feminine endings for fencer) visiting Singapore and a couple of friends, she and I decided to get our practice weapons and have a good old fashioned throwdown. She with her scary twin rattan sticks, and I with my rattan Guandao (handily made for me from a friend who loves the Society For Creative Anachronisms). We start and I try to use my extra range to lay a beatdown down, but I miss and I get a boot to the stomach and the freaky little sticks of doom slice me up into little bite size portions of Chinese girl. Not wishing to lose my pride, we have another throwdown, kickboxing style. I win by jumping shin roundhouse, Kaoklai style.

To sum it up, Filipino/Filipina martial artists scare the dickens out of me and it would be a difficult coin toss to determine the victor of a ninja and an eskrimador.

 

it depends. if it were one eskrimador and one ninja, the eskrimador would win. if it were 100 eskrimador against 100 ninja, the ninja would win. the eskrimadors would've killed each other. sad but true. :cry:

 

i've read it agin, and still makes me laugh , nice sir

 

But what if it were 100 male ninjas and 100 angry female Eskrimadors Now theres a scary thought.

Whole nations tremble at the thought.

I have one in my house and I pitty the ninjas that try to take her on.

Best regards

Pat

 

females: The most deadly of the species..... in most species too!

 

You're not kidding! Your comment made me tremble at the thought all the way across the pond.

 

I don't know, someone once showed me a video of a few lions and a few hyenas. The female lions were suppossed to be the more dangerous ones, but when the hyenas came to steal some meat, they ran. When the male lion came, the lucky hyenas ran.