About who? Sometimes I, like anyone else on here, I'm sure, get in and get out. In the immortal words of Jim Kelly's "Mr. Williams," in "Enter the Dragon," "If I've missed anyone, please forgive me, its been along day..." No problem, examples of what? The "he was not a Wing Chun master," thing, what? There, hope that makes things all better now, okay.
jkdero, i would read more of your comments if someone would only post the CliffsNotes. i believe what what they're asking for is an example of some of the never-before-seen methods he could have taken with him to the grave. Also I would like some proof. what you are claiming is more than just opinion, i need you to site your sources. i don't want you to think i am here to lash out on you or anyone for that matter. i am here to share and receive ideas.
"Is Kali part of your curriculum?" No... p.s. oh by the way the prinicples of Jeet Kune Do, doen't change if I have a no weapon or I have a weapon... It's a no brainer! I*_*I Keep "IT" Real, John McNabney
But this isn't about your brain. Or about principles. It's about physical performance. And I can say that doing a backhand witik is conceptually the same as doing a backfist. That doesn't mean that anyone who's learned the backfist can suddenly and proficiently perform the witik. How is that line of reasoning any different from saying that you can learn how to employ a sidekick without actually using the sidekick, based on the fact that we understand the principles behind a sidekick? Stuart
Are you implying that Kali and JKD are two completely different martial arts? If so I would fully agree as personally, I find it challenging enough to accomplish the basics, e.g. broken rhythm, awareness and efficiency within JKD rather than clutter my mind even more by accumulating techniques from other martial arts.
Totally agree. If you want to be good at JKD, do JKD. Same applies to Kali. They are seperate systems and should be treated as such, nothing wrong with doing the arts in tandem, but the footwork, angles and principles of empty hand Kali aren't compatible with the attributes required for JKD. JKD and Kali should have independent syllabuses.
they are completely different martial arts. But you can apply 'jkd' principles to any martial art. i don't find it difficult to incorporate other techniques from various martial arts into my arsenal.in fact i think it's easy. especially after i had the basics down. no clutter...I guess i'm just special i wonder if bruce felt cluttered when he accumulated his jun fan system from various martial arts?
i think you're using the world kali to represent filipino stick fighting. i'm going to use the word Escrima as my generalization of FMA. I think separating the two isn't necessary. both follow the same principles and footwork. for example jkd uses a lot of fencing footwork and entries. the word 'Escrima' is actually a variant of the spanish word for fencing! It uses footwork and entries from fencing too, amongst other things. just food for thought.
What's up bro, we'll call it whatever, doesn't really matter. I hear what you're saying, but that really hasn't been my experience. Yes, Kali/Arnis/Escrima has some elements from european fencing, but there are very few commonalities between the fencing elelments in Filipino escrima and those in JKD. If we look at it from a footwork perspective Eupropean fencing footwork concentrates mainly on forward and backward linear lunging and closing/opening the gap (an element incorporated into JKD). FMA footwork is mainly dependant on angles and triangles. The modified fencing and boxing shuffles used in JKD are completely different. Angling out and stepping off the line in JKD is also different. Yes you could probably find some similarities if you looked hard enough, but that doesn't mean the 2 ways of doing it would nessecarily benefit one another. Looking at it from the empty hand perspective, there is also a clash of ideas. The guntings, limb destructions and flow drills involve alot of hand and arm chasing in FMA, the principle of the weapon hand translating to the empty hand causes similar disparity. Punching in JKD is generally modified western boxing (modified because of the change in structure of the on-guard stance). Very few of the above FMA attributes really apply. I think Kali/Arnis/Escrima is a great weapons system, I enjoyed practicing it for a number of years and spent many training hours trying to "fit it in" with my JKD. I can honestly say since I stopped trying to do that, my JKD got much, much, better. As i say this is my experience, I know loads of guys who still incorporate Escrima into their JKD and enjoy doing it - that's great, so did I for a few years. Personally, from a cirriculum point of view, I think they should be treated seperately.
Absolutely! I dont know what I would do without my FMA...FWIW, the JKD group Ive been with for the last ~5 years is less thrilled about FMA than I am, but its still part of the core curriculum. Implementation does change a little though--there are some things that work differently with an extra "joint" so you cant always just "apply JKD"; you have to discover/learn and integrate the additional variables involved.
all good points and thanks for the feedback. I guess this always comes back to the same thing. If you see jkd as being a set style or not. if so, then yes we must separate it from other styles in the syllabus in order to put it under the microscope, analyze it and perfect it. if no, then you would gladly implicate anything that worked into your repertoire, and your jkd would look unlike anyone else's. kali is part of my jkd, but that's only because i like hitting people with weapons and making their heads clunk. :hat: oh yeah. Caballero Escrima focuses mostly on shuffling footwork, so it kinda comes down to the specific system.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the introduction of a new tool, with new physical properties and capabilities, isn't as simple as just doing what you were doing, but with 1) an extra joint, 2) the extra weight, 3) different capacity for damage, etc. Take a knife. You could approach knife fighting strictly like boxing. But impact weapons and cutting weapons are different. So while a fist has to be retracted to do damage, using a knife in precisely the same way ignores a big advantage of having that knife in the first place. I'd make the same argument for the old FMA chestnut that knife technique translates seamlessly into empty hand. Stuart
Word. I enjoyed clunking heads for a few years too, lol. At the end of the day, my own personal evolution in the martial arts lead me away from FMA to concentrate more on the Original JKD material. I still enjoy stickfighting occasionally (mainly to help out old sparring partners), but I treat it no differently to say playing football, in that it's something I do for funsies rather than part of my JKD... I'll have to check out that Caballero footwork, cheers for that.
I think there's a really strong temptation to embrace absolutes here. The two poles are: 1) Using this idea of universal concept as a reason NOT to train in something specific. I've seen it used to say that you can use wing chun on your back, so why bother to learn ground fighting? Or you can perform X empty hand style with a weapon in your hand, so why bother learning a specific weapon style? 2) You have to master entire systems of martial arts just to redress gaps in your training, so that people feel compelled to get one style after another "on their resume," regardless of the actual quality of training in any given one of them. As always, the right answer lies somewhere on that sliding scale. And not necessarily in the same place for everyone. To be clear, I don't think anyone here SHOULD practice kali as part of their JKD. Honestly, I don't really care, except as an intellectual exercise in reasoning. Stuart
Extremely well put. I was tempeted to say that the middle ground generally tends to win out, but you've put it far better than I could there.
