Bro,Muay Thai fighters cant train full power on each other in Sparring,thats just to dam risky for injuries cuts and knock outs etc,thats why they hit pads all the time,Bruce Lees training included eye jabs joint kicks etc,again to risky to do all out against another partner,hence he had to use equipment.
I'd be much obliged to hear your other effective ways other than Kali for training the attributes I mentioned. I'm not skeptical or in disbelief, just think if you mention that there are other ways, you should list them. As for these "secret" methods you mentioned, if he had these secret methods or tactics he took to his grave, how do you know about them? Wouldn't that make them not a secret? I'm now thoroughly confused LOL.
One thing that strikes me about the discussion of kali in JKD: It's very often described in terms of building attributes. Rather than in terms of actually applying technique. I know JKD is an empty hand art. But weapons are the great equalizer. And if you were going to even your odds, it makes sense to employ weapons yourself. Doing so, you'd probably want to continue employing the concepts of JKD. Kali is a natural fit for various reasons (e.g., the Inosanto connection and kali's historical relationship with Western fencing, which features prominently in JKD's original conception). Seems obvious to me that some melee weapons work (at the very least) fits into the JKD framework. Unless the premise is "use every weapon at your disposal, unless it's actually a weapon." Which seems unlikely. Stuart
I know, I know, the old "burden of proof" as much a myth as it is - people believe what they want, with or without facts because of what they focus on or leave out during their so called "thinking" a thing through. Just ask the majority of Original - Concepts people. Tell you what people - humor me. Think outside the box - stretch you minds just a little more than usual; post examples showing where your sort of concluding (above) has actually proven invalid. Pretend you're Christopher Columbus - all around you the majority think in a box, but you know from experience people sometimes don't consider all the angles. Believe me, you'll be better off in your approach to things.
I mean, dude actually sparred. He fought on rooftops without killing people. He participated in a boxing tournament in high school without killing people. There is Youtube footage of him sparring, although in fairness it doesn't look like they're going full-power. However, there are what appear to be candid photos in "Bruce Lee vol. 3: Jeet Kune Do" (pp247-248) of Lee and someone else, possibly Ted Wong, gloved up. And Dan Inosanto, in Joe Lewis's book, relates at least one story of Lee sparring with boxing gloves. The guy was a tremendous athlete and hit hard, but I doubt any contention that he ever got to the point where he couldn't spar or else he would have been filling up the morgue.
Taking my own "tell you what people" challenge (see above) I read through the "Bruce Lee vs. Muay Thai fighter" thread. Not in the least bit surprisingly, very, very, very, few other than Muy Thai practitioner, Fire Cobra, in his discussion with another Muy Thai guy, approached the subject, silly as it was made, with any real clarity as to how to look at the thread's subject within anything even begining to resemble a scientific manner. The same old conjecture, once more based on misconceptions, faulty ways of thinking something through, and so forth. Who cares who Lee could've beaten or not? The man is dead. Who he could've beaten as its own subject is a waste of time. The whys and wherefores are what one could learn something from - if they are solid, if they are approached after having considered solid angles, rather than conjecture, etc. In this, even most of those who sought to defend Lee were lost. They too were focused on the waste of time aspect. While the very aspect which could have uncovered some solid principles perhaps worth adopting were once more just not part of the subject. The vast majority of logic reminded me once more of an analogy I've used before - that of a small child playing hide and seek, sitting there in broad view of everyone, its precious little hands covering its face.. having concluded that if it can not see, it cannot be seen... It's precious little logic faulty in in the angles it has yet to learn to consider, thus left out of its equation. Precious, yes - in a child.
My point was not that Muay Thai = somuchmoreawesomethanbruce, it was simply that Muay Thai guys spar all the time without killing each other, and there's a good chance that a well trained Muay Thai fighter would be more dangerous than Bruce (at least in unarmed combat). Therefore the idea that Bruce would have killed his opponents if he unleashed his full power is a rather flawed idea.
So much for my thinking caps challenge. Alright, you're excused from properly researching your conclusions before stating them. But you'll have to turn in your lunch pass, and you won't be going be joining us in our real Indians reservation trip next week. Alright, alright, simmer down, you can go on the trip - but could you at least be a bit more mathematical in your approach. I mean, you show the signs of some possibly good logic down the road someday. But you did not reserach your topic well enough and you ceratinly do not appear to have considered where it might be flawed so you could have that out of the way. Here, have a seat, that Jet Li DVD will wait - here's what I mean; Many of Lee's students have said that although he did not spar at full spped and power they were helpless against him. One of them was a rough and tumble streetfighter who had gone on to take up boxing in the military and emerged with 100 straight wins yet found himself unable to even touch Lee. Mind you, that was military boxing - real men and all that. Another was said to be able to knock people out with either hand, yet he too was unable to deal with this little Chinese man. One could go on, but the piont is what might we want to inquire into towards "some of that" ability for ourselves, if it is even possible. For that is what Lee did - he'd read all these wacked out accounts of China's great martial heros, and become inspired by that to "want some of that" for himself. By the time he realized a lot of it was myth, he'd trained so fanatically, but even more importantly, with such a fanatic emphasis on what possible sciences might greatly aid him towards that, for that was his goal, that he became quite a phenomenal martial artist. Later, when the movie stardom bug returned, he did the same there, wrote it down and then put every ounce of his now way off the scale energy to do what no Asian before had ever done, let alone, been allowed to do. See, the man is dead. He won't be fighting anyone any time soon. Yet here we are discussing his possible martial arts prowess, not his acting technique. I don't know about you, young man, but to me, there is something there I might learn something from, you know, towards what-cha-ma-call-it, oh, what's that phrase his acting students, (turns beat red) I mean, his martial arts students, use - oh yeah, "towards my own personal liberation!" Yeah, that's it. Tell you what young man, this discussion has put me in a "liberating" mood - you just go write the following on the black board a hundred times, and I'll give you a passing grade. Here's the sentence, "Every day, in each and every way, I am getting better and better, at finding the cause of my own ignorance." (Turns to the rest of the class) Class, each time I ring this little bell, I want one of you to jump out of your seat as high as you can, a shout out with joy, "I am Bruce Lee!" You know like at the end of that Malcom X movie -like that! Oh heavens to Betsy, I forgot - Class, I have a little gist for the one who does that the best - you ready for this - you sure? Oh my God, you are going to be so surprised (turns red again) be still my heart - It's a copy of that scene at the end of "Fist of Fury" where Bruce Lee, I mean his character, Chen, leaps up in the air to a hail of bullets. and guess what, man oh man, this is so exciting - it's the same scene of him leing up in the air over and over and over! Here let's get started - ring the bell, one of you leap up in the air and shouts out "I am Bruce Lee!" and just to get feeling of it, I throw this popcorn at you - you know, don't really wanna use bullets or anything like that, we're not invincible like he was - yes, that's right, after they filmed that scene, he actually got up like he was bullet proof or something and walked away! I heard he went off to fight Thai kicking thing guys, but that wasn't in the movie so no one believes it. Now, who wants to go first... Spinmaster, would you like to be first, you know, help get you on the right track - we're not mad at him, are we class" Darn it, this story's taken over - I can't seem to stop this moment to moment relating - someone help me - oh my God, I'm, - I'm Bruce Lee - WAHTAH!
lol, as amusing as your "teacher imitation" is, JeetKuneDero, I don't see that it really proves anything. We have it well documented that Bruce Lee wasn't really a "master", in Wing Chun when he first formed Jeet Kune Do, and that he was not a "master" in boxing either. Joe Lewis was a real fighter who trained with Lee, yet we don't see him recoiling in amazement over any unearthly power, do we? Don't get me wrong, Bruce Lee had a lasting effect on the martial arts world, but he wasn't a god, and he wasn't the "ultimate martial artist".
Yeah, I had fun with that one. Again, you have missed my point, though - Lee is dead, we will never know. Also, stories of his prowess can only prove a thing relative to their context. Other than that, unless taken as only one of the angles one should consider (in other words, not just stories and conjecture) are not reliable alone - one needs to no only consider all angles but know how to so they are sound. While simply buying into the legend and expecting everyone else to march along is as foolish as my teacher sketch. Consider for example, your statements above, just now. Further research on your part would have led you to statements regarding Lee's Wing Chun classamate's amazement at how, despite little he'd Wing Chun he'd learned, he had surpassed many of his top level seniors - despite their having known the entire system. What does that prove, if true? That your conjecture on a thing fails to consider all the angles I keeping harping on. While Joe Lewis, who continually contradicts himself, is maybe unrelaible so again, all the angles have to be taken into account. Lastly, your understanding of "master" as implied by your "evidence," is simply faulty. Do you realize how many 'nobodies' outside of a system in many areas of life have gone on to surpass everyone who had all the belts, degress, etc? None of this proves nor disproves the "Bruce Lee was the deadliest man on the planet," debate - I was and have been seeking to cause you to think outside the box when you look at any matter. Get good at that and then look for how good Lee was (but, again, only for what that might inspire in terms of possible training methods, and so forth). Re-read my original post which lead to all this - I was reporting what I had found, not what I had concluded. I simply don't have the varied background that would require. Again, find the holes in your arguements, don't just post those arguements - its a great exersize. Have a fruitful weekend, fellow broh-skees! An afterthought: Here is an example of how I go about the above, though I am probably not the first to do so in this manner: At the very beginning of Lee's fight scene with Bob Wall in "Enter the Dragon," Lee lashes out his first strike with amazing speed. Impressed by that, I have tried to decipher if it is true or trick photography, etc. Attempting to consider that from as many angles as possible, I noted that the yellow flags waving in the background, as Lee strikes, are doing so at normal speed. Still unsatisfied, I continued seeking out what else might be there as evidence either for or against his speed. As a result I found that one of the onlookers in that scene is first seen wearing a yellow outfit, then, as the fight progresses, he is seen wearing a white oufit. Okay, so the scene was actually spliced together from different shootings of that fight. Does that favor or detract from his speed? What else? One day, I ran across na interview with the movie's editor wher he stated that one of his toughest jobs was that the guy was so fast in that shot they had to re-shhot to where that strike could at least be seen, that even with that, he really had his work cut out for him because, normally, its easy to tell when people in a fight scene are going to move, but in Lee's case, there was no indication of that - he's just explode into a blur. As I continued my experiment I could not find anything to disprove his speed in that scene and still haven't. Even now, though, I stiil keep the question at the back of mind. Seeking to find holes in my findings. This has also led me to consider possible ways towards that type of speed - which also leads to further research, and so on, to things those who do not go that far would find, let alone know about as they sit down to add their two cents. One thing I have consistently found is that Lee would do the same types of explorations into all possible angles. In his case, towards his goal of becoming the best. It might've been easier had he at least begun a UFC type of thing back then, but he did not. One possible reason might be how guarded he was about being filmed in a fight for anyone who could then study that and find ways to beat him. He had done that himself in his obssesive watching of Ali's fights. Supposedly, he'd go an entire day studying one of Ali's fights. Deciphering, analyzing and so forth. Again, none of this proves he was Mr. Deadly. But that is not my point. To continue to suppose otherwise is to rob yourself of what the process itself might help you in,as it appplies so well to many areas of life. It's kept innocent people out of jail, for example. It's lead to amazing discoveries in many fields, etc. Well, I'm done, I've said what I've wanted to on the matter. Now, to sit back and watch someone conclude I have said Lee was responsible for space travel, the light bulb, miraculous cures and so on - lol
"Information is useful, the delivery methods of such information often makes one look like an ass" - Quoting myself....
Woah, dude. All I was asking was for some examples. I don't see how we went from a logical conversation to this ambiguous jargon. I never said I don't believe you, I merely was asking for some examples because I am unaware.
Guilty, bro. LMAO - I've run accross people on other forums who go on as I do and have to conclude the same about myself. It's Aps and Dae Han's fault, though. They used used to rein me in
