Is Japanese Ju Jitsu sufficient for self defence and competition?

Mike's pretty much stated explicity what I was driving at...

Unless you do tons of randori and matwork in your class then you are going to get hammered. Even then, it's possible (although not certain) that the technical level of your randori/grappling instruction is unfortunately not of a sufficient level to prepare you adequately for victory in that type of competition.

If most of what you do is karate type block/catch punch then hit/throw/sweep/reap type self defence techniques you will most likely get crushed in seconds, be that in comp' or in a 'real life fight'(tm).

 

I am using the Ju Jitsu as the platform for the Judo/Wrestling and (maybe eventually) BJJ. Of course I will go to the Judo/Wrestling classes themselves to improve for it/work on specific techniques but at least with Ju Jitsu (which I will return to eventually) I know a handful of throws already.

I am just annoyed that when the kickboxing was taken as a back seat for the exercise, even though my body was in it, my mind wasn't-it was merely using the kickboxing to strip off bodyfat. The problem is I got worried and then owned in my first tournament/am not winning in local novice competitions/still have an issue with getting hit in the face.

The reason I want to do Judo/Wrestling competition is to see if it's for me as opposed to kickboxing (which isn't for me but i'll do 3 more competitions to see if I can improve)

EDIT: I find it fun when i'm winning/have close matches-that's when I love the sport. But when i'm getting beaten up I hate it!!! I don't know how to multitask/want to do well in martial arts/fighting hence the competitions but hate the fact my progress is so slow

I just want to have the physique and the fitness but ALSO be good at kumite/randori and not need excessive amounts of training and mental worry before competition/a real life situation-at least if I do competition it'll help me in real life situations as opposed to in-class fighting where people hold back/don't want to knock your head off for competition!

 

I'm also curious as to why you would choose to do JuJutsu anyway if you are intested in competiting in either Judo or Wrestling?

Any JuJutsu in your area that compete in JuJutsu comps?

Just go start training and worry about competition and competition results later.

 

So you want to have a great body and awesome MA skills, don't we all. If you don't have either just now then you need to train more or train harder.

If you don't like being hit in the head do judo/wrestling, but there's no point doing jujitsu if you want to compete regularly in grappling. Maybe if you'd done years of JJJ before you decided you wanted to do judo/bjj almost like Roy Dean (although he was a judo black belt too), then it could be worth it.

Otherwise just pick one thing and get a decent grounding in it, stop worrying about progress, you'll start to get better the more you train.

 

Dude, it's not just a matter of learning specific techniques. It's an entire rule set and approach you'll have to learn. I have done both traditional martial arts and combative sports (BJJ and wrestling) and the way they train is usually completely different.

Combative sports (I'm going to focus on wrestling because I competed there, I just do bjj as a hobby) are going to be more intense with the focus on winning a match where you are going against another trained, highly conditioned competitor. You are going to be expected, in fact required, to be aggressive and on the attack. In particular you can lose points for stalling. You are going to have to get used to people trying to move you in a very aggressive, almost violent manner and not worrying about your safety beyond the rule set. You will be cross faced, nelsoned, chicken winged and twisted in a none too gentle way. Your coach is going to push you to exhaustion and then demand more. Wrestlers are probably some of the best conditioned and hardest athletes there are.

Too be blunt going to a couple of classes or a clinic or too will be no more effective than reading a few books.

Even the bjj class I go to as a hobby is way harder than anything I ever did in traditional martial arts training. The guys at my school who compete train every bit as hard as I did in my youth as a wrestler.

I'm not trying to scare you off but it is a different world. If you want to compete go for it but don't be surprised by the huge difference in training.

Good luck in whatever you chose to do.

 

Well Sensei's son (who is 4th Dan) used to compete in it but the club is non-profit and only teach once a week-generally Sensei and/or the assistant Senseis warm us up,partner us up and give us a combination or throw-to-grapple to do and then leave us to it for a while-they'll come back and if they're happy,give us something new.

HOWEVER

there is another club in my town which is Goshin Ryu as well BUT it's being slowly turned into a pure MMA club e.g. getting rid of belts and gis.

http://www.jitsu.org.uk/AboutUs/JuJitsu.aspx

http://www.jitsu.org.uk/Instructors/MikeMadDogMcGarry.aspx

That club's teacherwas Sensei's ex-prized student; he achieved 1st Dan and wanted more but Sensei said 'not yet'- he then goes and gets a 5th Dan somewhere else and tries to take over in class so Sensei shows him the door.
Not to mention this guy's students messed my ex-kickboxing instructor around-the kid was 18 and my instructor is 37-my instructor was holding a kickboxing event and wanted him to fight in it/let the guy train for free but the kid was undecisive/pulled out last minute because he wanted to do MMA-then he started swearing at him via facebook since he has no balls to say it to his face.


This is the reason I do Ju Jitsu at my current club. It's good though-I enjoy it except when I get thrown by one of the assistant instructors!
BUT I am studying at University and down the road there's a Judo club AND an Olympic Wrestling club so will do it alongside-plus they are things I can do competition in/the Ju Jitsu gives me some sort of platform in.

 

Sounds to me like you are suffering from analysis paralyasis. Just go to a goddamn judo/wrestling/bjj class if you want to see if grappling is for you.

If you want to get over your fear of being hit in the face then go to a place where they teach striking properly.

If you don't want to grapple and don't think striking is for you then drop martial arts and stick to weights or re -assess your desire for being a capable fighter and just do a martial art you feel is fun and within your comfort zone.

Martial arts require hard work. Real training is going to hurt. It's not going to come over night so you'd better just suck it up and stop crying about the long road or just quit now.

 

Just two cents from a judo n00b here...

Ronki, here's how it sounds to me: you like the idea of being able to handle yourself in a full-contact competition art as this would give you credibility, but the idea of having to actually spar or compete intimidates you. So you're wondering if by doing JJJ instead you can get this credibility through the back door i.e. without sparring or competing. In short, what you're really after is reassurance.

It doesn't work that way mate. If you do judo, one of the first things you'll notice is the vast expanse in skill between being able to throw a guy who's just standing there and being able to throw a guy who's actually fighting you back. You're not going to learn that kind of skill without regular sparring. I've noticed a big difference between the white belts who've only just started (like me) and the white belts who've been doing it for a while.

Just go to a judo club and try it out. They're not going to kill you. It will be hard, yes, but you won't be thrown in at the deep end with sharks. I only recently started and I'm currently the club's throwing dummy, but I survive and I even pull off throws, pins and submissions every once in a while. You're quite capable mate - just go for it.

 

Thanks dude!

Ok people, here's my experience from the two classes-remember I haven't done Ju Jitsu since January and haven't done weight training since last August (with the exception of bodyweight exercises in kickboxing).

Judo

I went to Judo and the first thing I noticed that was different from Ju Jitsu was the fact that we have no punches/kicks to base our throws off-all start from Judo grip-we have no Judo grip in Ju Jitsu. Anyway, the warm up in Judo is similar in that we get jogging on the spot/moving feet side to side. Then we attempt to jump into handstand and back again-you know, like they do in street dancing. They also make us roll forwards/backwards from one end of the mat to the other and do handstand walks/cartwheel. I can't do handstands yet-not got the balance or the strength to do it without resting my feet on someone's shoulders. Can't do backwards rolls yet-when I was young boy I did it and it hurt!

Anyway, in Judo we practise throws in mid-air and then do Ujikomi. Ujikomi by Judoka is fast and furious-I really thought I was going to fall over since I couldn't get back to my position before the next rep!

Did some ne-waza and randori-got my ass handed to me! Atm they are using those damn jigsaw mats which hurt like a bitch since they're ribbed! However, my novice Ju Jitsu knowledge is coming back to me and when i'm on the ground and on my back, I attempt blood choke by trying to squeeze the sides of their neck between my hands or (when I had one arm stuck) by sticking my thumb under their jaw-both were unsuccessful but at least it kept them from tapping me out. Once I got on my back and he was on top of me and I attempted hadaka-jime from the bottom-again,didn't work but at least it kept him at bay.
Still not breakfalling great though-especially when i'm thrown and my arms are constrained e.g. morote seo nage

Wrestling

Taught by Romanian Olympic Team Member (2000) Vasile Stefan

It was amazing but really tough. In the warm up we had to raise/drop our arms to his claps, explosively turn oneway and then the other in semi squat (American football) position when he clapped, stride,sprint and run backward from each corner of the mat. We then had to forward and backward roll one way, do rolling breakfall (like in Judo), do squat-to forward roll,forward roll to bridge, and cartwheel. Then we had to jump over our coach who was bending over and each time he got higher and higher (I only did once because first time was hard).Finally we did bodyweight conditioning: wrestler's bridge,fast push ups,fast sit ups,squat,squat jumps,etc. Then (don't remember if it was before or after) we did fireman's carries (I could get him on my shoulders but couldn't squat),bodyslam lifts (second session for me),sit ups off of partner's back while he was on his hands and knees (I collapsed when he was on me)

On my first session we did work from parter (?)-one of us was on his hands and knees and the other got behind him and tried to roll him over to one side.

The main thing we did in session two was to roll opponent to one side,keep arm around neck and stop him from getting back to the top. Becuase it was on jigsaw mat it gave my back friction burn and I couldn't stay on the bottom for long. Finally, we tried to take opponent down by single leg takedown.

On session 1 we ended with newbs grabbing a 35lb/15kg olympic plate and doing bent over rows,chest press,shoulder press and squats in a giant set- 10 to 20 reps and rest after all finished

Conclusion

I enjoyed both but the friction burn and jigsaw mats hurt! Do you desensitise to the burn/soreness? I get more saw from the judo throws but the groundwork really burns-especially since I have acne on my back and the medication makes the skin tender.

P.S. I enjoyed doing this-



for some reason Kata Guruma was easier-the Judo uke was 10-15lbs lighter than the wrestler who was 10-15lbs heavier. Is it hard to do moves like that to big people? People were really impressed with the above and below (I couldn't even lift my opponent)

 

Glad to hear you gave those arts a go mate. I'd love to try wrestling but sadly there is no club within easy reach for me.

 

I train in Southampton-idk where you train but wouldn't an MMA club have wrestling in it? It probably won't be 'true' wrestling though.

Have a look on the British Wrestling Association (BWA) site. What I like about wrestling is that is far more physically demanding than kickboxing-the conditioning required/they make you do is crazy and your pulling/trying to take down heavy people-hopefully it's a good way of looking good/getting fit without having to spend so much on gyms (of course supplementary weight training is good but if you're a student like me the Judo + Wrestling or MMA 2-3x a week for 2 hour sessions is a good way of mixing strength and cardio together-killing 2 birds with one stone).

I was going to say, the amateur wrestling also makes you appreciate fake/pro wrestling-especially with the bodyslam lifts/fireman carries

 

The only realistic grappling club in Chelmsford (where I live) is the judo club, which is admittedly a very good one. There are some BJJ and MMA gyms in nearby towns but as I don't drive it's a bit of a pig to get to them.