is it a good idea to shadow box whilst holding weights?

nah, I don't think so. i understand you both just fine.

There's no chance of me injuring my elbows doing this (or any other joint for that matter), becuase I do it safely ie don't lock my elbows out, no where near in fact. It only "encourages bad form", if you let it. By the same token i can say it encourages good form, because bad form becomes more of an issue - same as other exercise with weight. With weights in my hands my movements 'can't' deviate from good form, it actually makes it harder to be sloppy, because you know *shock horror* i actually know something about taking care of my body - I've been doing various forms of training including weight training for many years now. You talk as if you're the only people who know enough about their body to keep it safe during exercise. Well *newsflash* - you aren't.

So first priority is keeping good form, second is getting the most intensity from the punch out.

 

Well, if you do understand me just fine, you're being deliberately obtuse, which is a bit unworthy given the amount of time you've spent accusing me of being immature.
The added weight encourages you to lock your elbows out. And the motion of pulling the punch short of full extension becomes habitual, screwing up your technique. A little common sense wouldn't hurt. Don't be an ass- I'm not the only person who knows enough about my body blah blah load of overwrought crap.
Both of your priorities are directly opposed by the method you're using. I consider the matter closed. There's a reason this thread is in the section labeled 'what not to do'.

 

yea, i guess scaremongering people is all you got in the end, in the absence of sound reasoned explanations of how I'll be self harming.. because you know, you're the only guys who know how to not hurt themselves training.. forget guys that have degrees for example - what do they know!?

good for you though man. superiority - lot's of people suffer the ailment. I don't have a good prescription for you though, sorry.

 

<PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON MAP>

 

blah blah blah. now that's immature!

No, that hasn't been my experience. If anything, it makes be less inclined to do so.

i don't fully extend in my techniques - in other words i don't lock out my elbow joint when i punch. techniques like hooks and uppercut punches don't fully extend like this any way, neither do low shots. That leave crosses and straights - i repeat, i don't extend FULLY. Full extension would mean locking out my elbows.

i don't think that counts as good technique.

Whatever. You think more of your opinion than it's worth. Is that better ?

They aren't "directly opposed", now you are just pulling things out of thin air. If you insist, maybe you need to explain this "direct opposition" again..

Closed eh ?

Sounds good to me..

 

<PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON MAP>

 

Can I just remind you that personal attacks, however innocuous, are not allowed.

Keep it up and you might end up looking down the barrell of the ban gun.

 

My degree actually *is* in exercise physiology from Pitt. That's why I posted links and reasons and proof that it's more harmful than good.

I'm only trying to help. The only person who seems to be acting in a superior fashion is you.

So if it's not bad for you, then show us studies where it's good for you. Or some scientific reasoning why it's actually beneficial.

You can't? All right then.

 

You're right i can't show how exercising this way is beneficial to my body... And you might want to ask for that degree back now - if you really believe that.

Just take a moment and think about what you asked. next you'll be telling me it'll be better if i just stayed in my armchair and ate chips.

Don't condescend to me in the first place about needing treatment when I get old, because all I did was give it back. And surprise surprise, now you don't like it.

We're done.

 

Agreed. No sense arguing boxing with someone who has no experience with it.

 

Another reading comprehension fail on your part. I'm not suggesting that you do.

Recursive accusations of hypocrisy and immaturity have now reached their fourth or fifth iteration, and I refuse to take them any further. You, however, are a hypocrite.

No, I don't- because it's BASIC ENGLISH. DO YOU SPEAK IT?

 

FYI I've competed full contact - boxing and san shou. Shows how much you know about it.

As for the tactic of making it about me, my experience with or without boxing is kinda redundent to the discussion. It just shows your desperation to want feel a bit more superior hey now that in your eyes i don't have any experience with boxing.. who are you, and what do you know aboout me anyway ?? If you were confident that what you are saying is gospel, it wouldn't matter eitherway.

I've trained in boxing and kickboxing with various trainers - who have trained succesful full contact fighters - including guys who have fought over here in cage rage. Not that it even matters here. I mean in light of evidence that this method is used by top boxing trainers and their fighters?

Why do you care about my experience ?

I mean people you have never heard of vs. pro boxing camp. And your making it about my experience in boxing.. How strange of you, really. I didn't think you were that weak.

You also conveniently forget slipthejabs posts on the subject which I think are very balanced. None of which I disagree with. He has some experience with boxing too, and I saw how you "argued" with him - you brave man you. So what does it really matter ?

This is not about who has the most boxing experience, or who is the best boxer or fighter amongst us. Kinda of a silly and childish way to want to take an argument if you ask me.. Good to know you have a degree in this stuff, I don't know hgow old it is, but I hope you can appreciate that someone else with a similar degree might think differently to you about certain exercises. If you want to take it up with my trainer (with the degree) who know more about why he trains x specifically and teaches that, you can PM me and I can put you in touch with him. FYI He has trained succesful full contact fighters - what about you ?

Now we're done. unless you want to disparage and put me down personally some more about something or other you think matters.

 

Meh..

Do you understand it ? lol

I think if I quote you we'll see again what you were suggesting eh.

You were suggesting that not full extending will habitually screw up my technique. And that this exercise will encourage me to fully extend.

When I explain that that doesn't happen, you claim you wern't suggesting what ?

That i'm encouraged to full extend, or not doing so doesn't actually mess with technique the way you claim.

I mean your point is now lost completely. which one is supposed to be harmful again ?

both? none?

in what way harmful ?

The argument you made didn't hold up to a little scrutiny, and all you can come back with is "I wasn't suggesting that", followed by another volley of personal abuse. Sticking to what you're good at eh..

 

I actually did post against slipthejab's argument.

Judging from your previous fighting videos as cloudhandz and from what you think will actually benefit a boxer is why I found it a fair assumption to decide you were lacking in that department.

I'm no trainer, just a guy with a fair amount of amateur boxing experience who trains out of a gym where a few well known guys come out of and got to spar with a future champ once.

Like I said, your body and your training. You're definitely being the hypocritical one in this discussion. You accuse others of being immature and not posting facts to back up what they say, but do exactly what you accuse. You say everyone else has a superiority complex yet want to flaunt your e-creds and brag about all the great people you train with.

And, as said before, like it or not there's a reason why this thread is in the section called "What Not To Do."

Then again, "common sense is an uncommon virtue."

 

Sweet christ, the almighty mountain of fail. You seem to be quite thick, so I'll explain reeeal simple:
Weight in hand. You punch. Weight move forward. You try pull punch. Weight has momentum. So weight try make you fully extend. This baaaaaad. If no fully extend, you learn stop full extension. This bad technique. This even happen without weight. This one reason martial artists hit bag/makiwara. Sensei Nakayama say so. So this also baaaaaaad. So weight in hand when punching bad. Weight in hand when punching suck. It fail. Kill it with fire!

 

hardly - you asked didn't you ?

Now you're making a dig because i replied with some info about who I've trained with. I'll remind you, you brought the discussion to that level by making it about 'my experience'. Why did you bother asking if you already knew your answer eh..

Where did I say who I trained with were "great", I just told you like it is - that's not bragging. As for videos - which one(s) are you talking about - the old vids from the sparring meets ?

If so those meets happened way before you even joined, the first one was early 2008, the second maybe not long after.. cant' be sure without checking I had prior to those first couple meets mostly been working wrestling and grappling and my boxing did get pretty rusty there for a while. Needless to say i have worked a fair bit on boxing skills since, and feel that as of now, I've worked some to improve to my boxing on those clips - but i guess i would say that.. At the end of the day I just do this as a hobby. i don't really care what random people on the net who I've never met or sparred think of my level. I'm happy with the feed back I get from sparring different people in the real world - in whatever format. i have enough overall fighting and sparing experience in different formats now to not worry about what guys like you think based on a few minutes of old footage.

the only vids i have up now, don't show me doing any kind of boxing. So yeah, I'd like to know what clip(s) you're basing your judgement of me on, out of curiosity.

I never said i was a great boxer or even a good one, but i don't think i'm totally crap either. But either way you are welcome to your opinion about any video you have seen of me. I hope I'm priveliged enough to catch some fight videos of you sometime.. Again it's not like you were asking if I was any good. You asked if I had any experience with boxing. My simple answer the first time round wasn't enough for you it seemed. And you chose to make another condescending remark. i reply in defence of myself and it's "bragging".

Whatever.

i'm happy for your experience with boxing, good luck to you. according to you, because I simply asked back, and you replied, it means you :

"want to flaunt your e-creds and brag about all the great people you train with".. your words - not mine.

I don't need to post facts because I havn't made any claims about anything here. I never said it was better than this or that or that it was harmful - I made no claims as i recall. I don't need to post facts that this exercise actually helps condition my body do I?

I mean - do you actually really disagree with that ?

On the other hand, you have said that it will be harmful. That is a claim. What can be claimed without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

If you can find a claim I've made for this over and above what I've stated here, then you can quote it can't you. And if I have, i'll man up to it. ok ?

I just honestly don't think I have.

 

hmm.. dead weight doesn't have momentum. The weight moves forward from momentum generated by you. The weight produces drag downward due to gravity, that actually counteracts a little bit your forward momentum - that you generated. The dead weight does add a little something to this forward momentum. The best description for what it adds is funnily enough "weight".

Not an accurate description in my opinion.

You still haven't really explained why that is bad - even IF we were to ASSUME it "tried" to make you fully extend.

If this isn't taken specifically as technique training, why is it bad?

Then we have to say that doing bent over rows is bad, because the weight is trying to make your arm extend.

If you bothered to listen, I've repeated quite a few times that this isn't technique training in my book - not the way I do it. that doesn't mean I throw technique out the window obviously.

And i said in the previous post that I don't want to fully extend (lock out).

Frankly a "good" technique in a boxing match is one that lands well, and doesn't leave you compromised. It wouldn't matter one frickin bit exactly how far the arm was extended to be fair. Some of the better punches can be short ones for instance.

Define what you mean by fully extend here please - if you wouldn't mind. I mean we could be debating a matter of millimetres here for all i know..

So all shadowboxing should be considered bad now, great..

Ok good, as long as this common sense, makes sense to you guys. i'm fine with it.

 

Wow what a mess of a thread.

It seems it's more about peoples personalities than it is about boxing.
ahhh gotta love MAP... the more it changes the more it stays the same.

I can't really see what all the fuss is about. Even if you are at gym where they do some shadow boxing with light DB's it's never for very long... certainly not long enough or vigorous enough to do any damage to your joints.

In every boxing gym that I've seen guys doing it... it's never a major focus it's always more a minor thing. Cost is never an issue as most boxing gyms will have a pair of light DB's kicking about anyhow. Joints aren't an issue because usually coach will come by and say 'hey kid take it easy...don't swing for the rafters while holding DB's'.... fwiw... shadow boxing is mostly done with wraps only but can be done with a pair of 16oz gloves on... last I checked no one had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to go nuts boxing with DB's.

man you guys are going at it hammer and tongs over what is really a minor issue in a boxing gym at best.

 

Right, let's take this from the top again. You're either unbelievably stupid or you're being deliberately obtuse. I'm choosing to believe the former, in the interests of the TOS.Weight has momentum because you punched it forward. Sorry, too complicated. Weight started moving. Weight wants to keep moving. Weight makes pull on arm.

For the last time, for three reasons:
1. Pointlessness and
2. High potential for injury
3. Even if it not training for technique, it make technique bad. It baaaaad.

No, silly. Shadowboxing good. Shadowboxing make fight longer. Shadowboxing make more good punching. Shadowboxing with weight in hand not good, it bad.

 

I agree slip.. oh well. It is what it is i guess.. It's here in black and white. I think it shows who got personal and derogatory first. and how some people wanted to make it about personal experience in boxing or whatever.