IMHO - Go Kan Ryu, is not a style of karate as it claims to be, but a sales organisation. try this for size : https://www.facebook.com/groups/63028401043/ It's a 'facebook' group, that GKR don't like ! And yes I am part of the group. There's a lot of stuff about GKR, it's structure , behavour etc. Makes interesting reading.
Looked at their website, and apparently there is a GKR class in my home town. Can I out find out where and when they train? Nope. I have to call or email the "Regional Manager" who is quoted to "oversee the training and administration of over 60 classes, 50 branch instructors and literally hundreds of students who train each and every week." No mention of Dan grade, just lots of IGKF (Internation GKR Federation) qualifications.
Yeah same here. A couple of classes in York but no info about when and only a vague area name as to where. Shady. You'd think they'd want as many people as possible to know where they train?
You'd probably actually find that there are a whole host of GKR classes close to you, so you could potentially train every day of the week. But they want to sign you up before you get the chance to see the classes. 2 reasons: 1. If you have any vague clue what you're looking at you might not be that impressed 2. A new punter who's just joined (and bought memberships and gi's for himself and the whole family) is likely to persist longer than someone who just drops in. Retention rate is always poor in martial arts. But if you've already forked out a few bob before your first lesson then they're like to get a few months out of you - rather than the mere weeks most students last in most clubs. Mike P.S. @ Shotokan_Andy - it was hearing about the 'self-defence consultants' that first prompted me to investigate GKR
I'd love to see/train in a class, but there's no way I'm giving my details and submit to the hard sell. Anything that involves pressure selling and secrecy is certainly scammy. Its like the Scientology of martial arts, isn't it?!
Just a thought but if GKR is a decent style of martial art for self defence, fitness and charecter, if I lay into any door to door canvasers when I answer the door, they should easily defend themselves, run away and have the good grace to take it on the chin and not report me to the police, as it would be a friendly, cross training helping them advance sort of thing not a vicious attack?
Does that mean the baseball bat would be unfair? I'm only a first grade apprentice. Actually I seem to remeber a girl from Bushi Kempo JuJitsu, who was a Judo black belt got a consultant job with them.
I believe that part of the "benefits" of becoming a sdc , is free training , they specify no martial arts experience required in the ads I've seen.
There is something about making 'ma consultancy' a career which is attractive though, right? You can't really deny that it's a slick org...
Implied isn't the same as actually saying it, though. Is it? It's just the way you decided to interpret what I said. What I actually "implied"/said was that my instructor isn't all about the profit, or making money. He teaches for the love of what he does and merely covers his costs. There is no implication in what I said that points to me thinking making a profit is "evil". Doesn't seem that anyone else interpreted it that way. Just saying Anyway, back on topic... I always thought that to be a consultant you had to have a good/expert working knowledge of what it is you're taking about? How can someone consult me on self-defence when they have no working knowledge?
As bassai said, the 'self-defence consultant' job doesn't require any amount of training whatsoever, at least to start with. They are actually self-employed sales people working wholly on commission. They get most, if not all, of each new membership fee. This makes them very hungry to make the sale. The training they do receive before they start is about sales technique. They're given nice slick promotional material to show prospective customers and taught how to best sell memberships. Bottom line they'll say whatever works to make the sale... "GKR combines the best bits of Shotokan and Goju Ryu to produce the ultimate karate style." "Its non-contact so you won't get hurt." "Its excellent self-defence." And of course some stuff which may actually be true... "it'll get you fit" "because of the size of the 'club' you can find somewhere to train most days of the week" "the whole family can train together" You've got to admire the business model. There's virtually no capital outlay whatsoever. I think the only outgoings must be hall rental and printing promotional material for the door-to-door salesmen. There's no advertising as such. The only paid employees are the regional managers and above them the zone directors. The salesmen are working purely on commission. A large portion of the teaching is conducted for free by members. I believe there was supposed to be some rule about how instructors would get paid a small amount per year but it would be capped at a very low level (£40-£50 or something like that). If I remember rightly no uk instructors ever actually received even that. Insurance details have long been quite hazy. I think basically that they have a very 'stack it high and sell it cheap' policy through an Australian insurer. This is guesswork on my part but I suspect that because its 'non-contact' (in addition to buying in bulk) then they get it very cheap. So when instructors allow behaviour that results in injury they must by definition have been engaging activities outside the approved syllabus - possibly invalidating the insurance? In comparison with other martial arts the lessons are not particularly expensive. The key to make it pay is to sell it to lots and lots of people. So after paying for hall fees virtually all the money goes up the chain to the regional managers who pocket their bit and pass the rest up the chain to the zone directors, who do likewise and pass what remains up to the owner, Bob Sullivan. And then of course there's money to be made from selling uniforms, belts, gradings, mitts and gumshields. Its brilliant, you get lots of relatively unskilled instructors to do the work for free, then sit back and reap the rewards. It makes selling water from the Peckham spring seem like a mug's game - all those plastic bottles to buy and the time taken to fill them from the tap. Of course, if you're aim is to disseminate good quality martial arts, well... Mike
Oh boy, where to start? The 'ilovegkr' site is run by a GKR instructor of many years' standing. The site is unofficial, but extremely useful for both students and instructors (I learnt the patterns to several katas using the site's footwork diagrams). The 'GKR Scam' thing is a recent addition, fuelled (I suspect) by the large amount of negative comments about GKR which any websearch throws up. Mike Flanagan's comments are pretty much accurate, with one or two exceptions (at least in my experience): 1) The only time I've ever heard of a GKR dojo locking its doors to non-members is when the class has been disrupted by louts or drunks - I've welcomed spectators to my own dojo many times, and parents and friends of students sit in on the classes on a regular basis. 2) Door-to-door is not the only method of recruitment for new members (although it accounts for the majority of new members) - word of mouth, bring-a-friend promotions and school demos also bring in students. Andym - I'm not sure whether you have any connection with GKR aside from signing up for 'the real face of GKR' group, but I'd be interested to know if you have. I know several of the regular posters in that group (although I'm not a member myself), and can tell you that some of what is posted there is true, some is distorted, and some is utter codswollop. So, no different to any other Facebook group, then....... Llamageddon - if you really want to see a class, either PM me and I can arrange it in my region, or call the RM for your region and ask to view a class. He should be fine about it and invite you down to a class to watch, but if he gives you any grief about it or tries the hard-sell let me know and I can do some stirring....... :evil: General points: Insurance - the club is insured as a whole (no separate licences) for any GKR-run class or event, and any GKR-affiliated event. I don't have my copy of the current insurance certificate to hand, so I can't give you any specifics about cover limits, but I can tell you that the insurance carriers DO affect what we as club members can do - for instance, no open-hand techniques are permitted in tournaments for any kyu grade. Self Defence Consultants (SDCs) - full-time SDCs are recruited with no MA experience required. They are given free training but in return have minimum sign-up targets they have to reach each week. Some recruit sensibly, some don't. Some instructors become part-time SDCs - they have to follow the same sales script as the full-timers, but because they have usually been in GKR longer and have more experience as students AND teachers of karate, they give prospective students a better idea of what to expect from their first class, and are less likely to sign up students who are not suited to karate. Instructors - yes, I am one. I passed the Sensei Training Program (STP) exam after an 8-week training course, and assisted as a sempai for well over a year before I was given my own class to teach. I've been wearing a black-and-white belt for over 4 years now. I get free tuition from the region's Senior Instructor (a nidan) and half-price tuition for family members, in return for teaching once a week. GKR instructors have to have a first-aid certificate and CRB check to be accredited, as well as pass the STP exam. Once a year, every instructor with their own dojo receives a payment from GKR for 'expenses' - 20p per pupil per class, less the cost of first-aid certification - which doesn't even cover petrol costs for most instructors. Good job the instructors aren't in it for the money, innit? If anyone has specific questions about GKR I'm happy to answer them (if I can). For the record, I will say that (as in any other big organisation) there are good people and bad working for GKR. Currently in my region, to the best of my knowledge, the lowest grade of any instructor is 4th kyu and the lowest grade of any sempai is 6th kyu. Two thirds of all instructors are black belts. NONE of us are in it for the money. On the business side (SDCs, Regional Managers, Zone Directors) some are in it for the money, some for the karate and some for both. I don't agree with all GKR's business practices, but most of the problems people have had with GKR over the years have been created because GKR employees have ignored best practice and messed up (like putting yellow belts in front of a class - NOT supposed to happen, I don't think it has happened anywhere for a LONG time, and is definitely NOT happening in my region!).
Lorelei...I know your post was meant to make GKR seem better but that didn't work. Wow. A whole year and 8 weeks of training?!? I would bet money that at the end of that time you weren't even throwing a decent mawashi geri let alone capable of running a class or correcting other people. Does anyone else think that going door to door selling karate is actually an activity that puts you in danger of being attacked? For one you don't know who's door you're knocking on or what sort of area you're walking round. Kind of an odd thing for a self defence consultant to do right? Lesson number one for me in self defence would be "Don't approach strangers and tell them that you do Karate".
