We have been debating and cannot find an explanation for this technique. It is accepted that jirugi refers to the rotational motion applied to the hand or foot when performing a punch and a side piercing kick. Where we are finding a difficulty is where the rotational motion comes into back piercing kick (dwit cha jirugi) as this technique begins with and ends with the toes lower than the heel throughout the whole technique.
that would be either a reverse side kick or back pushing kick if were talking about proper technical kicking as per ITF manual.
No offence, but it doesnt.. is means to 'punch, pierce or stab' - no more, no less. It is the piercing part (in English) that many equate with refering to the twisting motion.. though I`m not convinced myself, as what about all the other 'twisting' techniques like flat finger tip thrust etc. that turn just as much as a punch! Personally, I feel 'piercing' is in reference to something Gen Choi said, about them (piercing techniques) aiming to cause 'internal hemoraging'. Stuart
When did you change your opinion as this post http://www.vip.tkdsource.com/forum/1-itf-source-technical-questions-26/jirugi-vs-taerigi-vs-tulgi/ you state that
LOL.. blimey. Good find! :love: When I heard the Gen Choi description, then re-thought the maths and figured that it doesnt add up for other technqiues so well, such those many hand technqiues that also twist, as well as some foot technqiues. Plus the fact that it can mean stab.. which doesnt need a twisting motion, but does 'impact' the body to cause the 'internal hemoraging' bit! I may be wrong, but I think the twisting bit was put forward by some who couldnt explain why it was called 'jirugi' which many knew simply as 'punch' (back then), yet refered to a kick in this case. I was certainly told siliar as you see and as they were high grades I took it as accepted fact, until I did my own research due to the books I was doing. Like BPK... SPK doesnt rotate that much either IMO. Stuart
BTW im not looking for a typical MAP tit for tat over semantics its just when i seen that while searching for an answer i couldn't not post it up. At least your input does show you care enough about your art to debate it. Its just one of those techniques thats been bugging me. I get the feeling theres not going to be a definitive answer to this one. Quite Disappointing as the encyclopedia has been revised so many times since being published. I really do hate the "just because" answer as its a cop out.
No, sure. Its just that the 'twisting' thing is the reason it doesnt equate, but when you look at it from the side I mention, its fits fine I guess - as in its meant for heavy impact to cause problems inside the person as well! I think the question is more - why certain techniques and not others.. but guess for many it could be 6 of one, half a dozen of the other! Stuart
Osu, What is a piercing kick? (I have images of kicking a barrel of beer to break one louvre and have the beer flow for all... but that's probably not it!) Osu!
This (the guy in black) [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsHHC32Mabo"]Defence Against Turning Kick with Back Piercing Kick - YouTube[/ame] Stuart
Only makes sense if the term cha jirugi doesnt refer to rotating the attacking tool into the target. therefore using the heel would make the kick hurt more than using the sole of the foot as done in a back pushing kick. Which i think your video looks more like to me than a BPK
I think the video was more 'relaxed' as it was part of a sparring workshop (and thus didnt impact like it would on a board etc.) and was just something I quickly found to show OK what it was you were refering too. AFAIA footsword is the 'correct' attacking tool, not heel (though I agree, heel is good too). I have another thought on this and that is why would General Choi use an obscure definition that is hard to make the connection too ie. jirugi meaning or refering to the piercing movement, when he simplified terms for most of his other kicks in the way they are executed. ie. turning kick (as opposed to roundhouse) as you turn when doing it, twisting kick as it twists out, downward kick (as opposed to Axe kick) as it comes downwards etc. It doesnt make sense that he does that with most things, then uses a definition/word that doesnt really make full sense for another! I recall the story of a seminar when someone mentioned a 'round house kick' - to which he replied "Round House! ... Round who's house"! Stuart
