Is 5G Harmful?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Pretty In Pink, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    And look at all the space firsts America had, definetly better then the totalitarian USSR:

    • First artificial earth satellite: Sputnik. ...
    • First animals to successfully orbit the earth: Belka and Strelka. ...
    • First on the moon: Luna 2 probe. ...
    • First man in space: Yuri Gagarin. ...
    • First woman in space: Valentina Tereshkova. ...
    • First spacewalk: Alexei Leonov. ...
    • First remote-controlled rover on another celestial body: Lunokhod 1.

    Oh no.... Wait a second!
     
    Grond likes this.
  2. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    That was 2G but was phased out by 3G, when real WWW browsers on devices became a reality. 3 and 4 G were the advent of the mobile phone becoming more like a super mobile PC. 5G is more or less speed and security on top of that. Although some days I long for the old flip phones. Life was simpler when I couldnt read MAP at the pool. I should be reading a book right now rather than checking the news and my martial arts web club ;)
     
  3. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    That was 2G but was phased out by 3G, when real WWW browsers on devices became a reality. 3 and 4 G were the advent of the mobile phone becoming more like a super mobile PC. 5G is more or less speed and security on top of that. Although some days I long for the old flip phones. Life was simpler when I couldnt read MAP at the pool. I should be reading a book right now rather than checking the news and my martial arts web club ;)
    Consider this: those were all essentially Cold War air and space superiority tech intended to fight WWIII, whereas the Internet was designed as a way to communicate during and after WWIII. Sometimes defense is the best offense? Note that we never went to war, the USSR become unable to feed their population and had their first peaceful revolution ever, and ended up taking the route of opening up to Western technology. Now they've caught up and the playing field is too even so Vlad isn't having that. The irony is if WWIII does come around it probably won't even be nuclear. It'll be our internet vs their internet.
     
  4. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    On the Nazis it's true that evil can be engineered to horrifying levels of efficiency. The difference is that we could easily have lost that war and all of us could be writing this in German right now. It's not that technology can't progress under autocracies, but clearly the risks and stakes are fat greater. It won't be for the greater good that is certain.

    It's a very, very, very grand thing that America invented the atom bomb. We had the right government, laws, and social conscience to only use it twice.

    Imagine if the Nazis had done it first? They were very close by the time we entered Berlin together as battle brothers. The horrors of the Pacific theater would have paled in comparison to a nuclear Third Reich. Kind of like the Russian Federation with the ability to control the global internet from Moscow.
     
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  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Interestingly I recently saw this




    And was amazed at the scale of both lives lost, and if how it was manly Russia that defeated the Nazis. We all played a part of course, but in materially terms of causing the most deaths to them, it was the Russians which did it.
     
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  6. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    The irony is the Soviet Union put more people to death over its lifespan unjustly than the Nazis could achieve in a mere 6 years with German engineering. So yes I agree they are efficient killers, and their governments even more so. It's interesting how two very brutal regimes sort of cancelled each other out while the rest of us not-so-brutal-regimes advanced, literally in terms of technology.
     
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It's also to do with the financial systems, having a stock market, and a fractional reserve banking system means we could out spend them using fictional money.

    Unfortunately it also means some of the richest monkeys horde their bananas, when other monkeys are staving for lack of bananas, if only there was a half way point!
     
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  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Side thought, many people die from Unrestrained capitalism, (see all the uninsured Americans) why is it our governments get a pass, when others don't?
     
    Grond likes this.
  9. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I think it has to do with ethical value systems we've memorialized in respective charters of government. The US republic doesn't reduce its citizens sysmetically to just an ordered number of equal parts like in Communist zones. Neither does the Commonwealth nations although I would argue they still suffer some historical shackles like monarchy, even if it's mostly a legal technicality. The whole "royal" class is a farce in 2019 in my opine, and a large part of what led to murderous regimes like the USSR.

    In short, the US and UK don't just have rampant unbridled capitalism. We have regulated capitalism, and social safety nets for those who can't strike gold and still need some basic income. Proof I'll offer of this is that while the US does have a big homeless problem, we don't have all out elderly, very poor, and very sick pushed out on the streets. There is almost always a place to go for help...state office, local shelter, church soup kitchen, etc. In Soviet Russia these poor souls would be frozen dead in the snow, uncounted. The Nazis would probably just exterminate them, which I believe they actually did to many elderly/sick, Jewish, Polish, Communist, gypsy alike.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That's not really exactly true, plenty of people die in America due to having no health insurance.

    Look at how asylum seeking children are being treated at the moment in the states too, and look at their judicial system and rates of imprisonment.

    They are a lot less bridled then the UK is.

    And we seem to be following the same path.


    Edit

    Look at how the Windrush generation were treated, they had their citizenship striped, and refused healthcare even when suffering terminal illnesses.


    I think its a mistake to think of any country in a black and white fashion, look at the US, its been almost continually at war since its inception, and has overthrown many democratic goverements in other countries for its own ends, but most Americans think they're a "good" country. Crazy isn't it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    David Harrison likes this.
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Only recently you had Iranians fighting US-supplied al-Nusra Front in Syria... and Iran is supposed to be the exporter of terror!

    It's a complicated old world.

    Western democracies might be a lot nicer to live in for the majority of people, but millions have died outside our borders due to the actions of our nations. Just look at the brutal regimes, wars and genocide orchestrated or backed by the West during the cold war. The West didn't have the moral high ground when it came to South and Central America, Angola, Vietnam, etc. etc. etc...
     
  12. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I don't know if that is true, how many people died last year because they had no insurance? Many people went bankrupt, maybe, but I don't know about it being an issue of mortality. Insurance is different from access to care. Having insurance means the ability to pay for care, without having to pony up your assets. People with no health insurance and no money can still get ER treatment for free in America. Hospitals in the US can't turn away people who can't pay. It's against the law.

    The immigrant camp issue in the US is kind of temporal. These tragic events come and go and because of transparency, it's harder than ever for them to go unregulated. Even the Border Patrol abuses are coming to light due to things like unannounced audits and inspections.

    In 1862, Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote in "The House of the Dead", also known as "Prison Life in Siberia", and I think this a pretty universal posit: The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons..
     
  13. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    The US has been continually at war since 1776 and overthrew democratic governments? 243 years? Which democratic utopia did the US overthrow again? When did the US last engage in conquering territory? I think the US is a good country, when stacked up against bad countries (behaving badly). We certainly have no history of systems of death camps where we burned millions of unwanted humans, or starved millions to death in ice cold labor camps.
     
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    List of wars involving the United States - Wikipedia

    United States involvement in regime change - Wikipedia

    So it's only bad if it's utopia? The democratic part doesn't matter? Quite high standards you've set up there...

    Is that a trick question? Or are proxy forces not counted?

    Pretty low standards you've set for yourself there!

    So overthrowing elected governments is okay, as long as they are not a utopia, but the US only has to be better than the Nazis or the USSR under Stalin to be a good country?

    New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That is epic level doublethink. 200,000 innocent people killed, who knows how many cancers, miscarriages and deformities in the following decades. US scientists rushed in, not to help or provide medical aid, but to run experiments on the survivors. A decision that was advised against by generals and admirals but the politicians and scientists wanted to see what would happen and send a message to the Soviet Union that would bring us to the brink of annihilation.

    The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

    - Kyoko Hayashi, Nagasaki survivor

    I don't think the Nazis are a moral bar by which to compare nations. Maybe aim a little higher?
     
  16. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Thanks for showing the United States has not been at war since its inception. That was a ridiculous claim.

    Of course "proxy forces" or whatever you are referring to are not counted, in the context of this discussion. The US has supported overthrowing dictators, autocrats, and Communists? Yes, and thank you!

    This is a weird argument. Which elected government did the US "overthrow" recently? My point about utopias was intended to address the tone of Dead Pool's argument. The tone of yours is a tad judgemental, but that's OK with me. But consider the human rights record of the United States vs other countries. Especially yours.

    A ten year old study prior to ACA and other healthcare improvements doesn't really support the claim that it's a meat grinder out here. The truth is you don't need insurance to get medical care in the United States. You can be dirt poor and get access to a doctor in minutes.
     
  17. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    How so? Which nation would have done a better job with nuclear weapons? The British Government would have used the technology to lay waste to numerous native populations, had they invented it in the 19th century. So thank God the United Kingdom borrowed it from the United States as a courtesy instead. You should read some GI letters from the US troops in the Pacific theater, if you want to understand atrocities and murder from a Western perspective at the hands of jingoistic Japanese horrors.
     
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Quick post:

    I said the USA has been at war for Almost all of its history.

    That is true.

    "The U.S. Has Been At War 222 Out of 239 Years. This morning, I discovered an interesting statistic, “America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776“, i.e. the U.S. has only been at peace for less than 20 years total since its birth.19 Mar 2017"

    The U.S. Has Been At War 222 Out of 239 Years

    America is not always a force for good.

    Indeed currently your the only country in the world not signing up to fight climate change, and your goverment is covering up war crimes. Whilst threatening ICC judges

    US threatens to arrest ICC judges if they pursue Americans for Afghan war crimes


    Your American I belive which means you are indoctrinated from birth to belive America is great, America is good, America is the reason the allies won WW2.

    You also have far more mass murders as a ratio of the population then anywhere else in the world, why are Americans so evil?
     
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Remind me again what happened to the majority of the indigenous population in the US?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019

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