Interpretation of Silat in Eastern And Western culture

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Gajah Silat, Jan 9, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    Hello Kiai
    Thank you for calling me my title that I was graded by my Teacher and I very glad you reconised it now. But please in all Honesty Liam will do. I dont asked people to call me it in class, so there no need really for you to call me by it. However I do appreciate your respect.

    I would disagree with what you said about the list Ive already given you, but I will move on
    Here is a few more names

    Guru Besar
    Pak Zaenuddin Mg
    Pak Juhro Mg
    Pak Rusdi Mg
    Pak Angling Ms

    Guru Besar Disparus
    Abah Jahti
    Abah Rachman

    I hope that this enough now for to see that the term Guru Besar is used by some Indonesian in Cimande. Maybe not in the style you know about, but there are hundred's of different styles. In the style of Cimande I'm learning and teaching Pukulan Cimande Pusaka we have our own grading system, not all styles have the same ranking system or maybe even a grading system at all. That doesnt really matter as in the end very few students do silat just to get a title, it means very little to me. Rather be training than worrying about titles. At the end of the Day Guru Besar's Eat, Drink, Sleep and **** just like every one else. I dont believe having a title will save you in a fight if your style of silat isnt combat enough.

    I agree very much along the lines of O'ong Maryono opinion of what is a Guru Besar. I set up all my own schools and branches, develop them, introduce Silat to my country so what would be the difference.

    I also agree with a earlier comment by another writter that maybe my view of Silat is limited to the Combat aspects of silat, that maybe very true, but this is a Martial Arts Forum and so for me personally I have no interest in Poems, or Puppets or singinging. There nothing wrong with this but I prefere Irish Dancing, GAA, and Irish stories. But I dont keep bringing them up. If you into ancient Indonesian History thats cools . But different people have different views, so please respect other people views.

    I will asked you again for a forth time Please stop bringing us in to different threads, I have nothing personal against you, but every time you attack us I will keep hitting back. As a student of Silat the strong must stand up for the weak. I have said before
    I teach one version of Silat there are many many hundreds more, everyone has free choice. We are not the best nor are we are the worst, but this is what I love, this is what I do best and for me I will continue with Pukulan Cimande Pusaka.

    You may think we wrong, we may think you wrong, just leave it at that. For in all honesty if you keep going on you going to end up having this silat forum taking off.

    Regards
    Liam
     
  2. Jawara

    Jawara New Member

    To the Guru Besar who posted back a few:

    Cimande is NOT Javanese (its SUNDANESE)
    Herman Suwanda was also not Javanese (SUNDANESE)
    Suryadi "Eddie" Jafri was not Javanese (he was BATAK)

    Where do find and buy videos of Herman Suwanda and Eddie Jafri fighting with keris?
     
  3. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    Hi Jawara
    Eddie Jafri has a video out from the "Fear no man on Earth Series" Tape L front cover has him standing in a combat stance with the keris

    The Herman Suwanda mande muda tape was given to me by a fellow silat student from what I can make out the title is Indonesian Martial Arts - Herman Suwanda - Kris fighting systems. It starts of showing Kunjang techniques than Keris

    I'm not a student of any of these styles so I'm not sure where they sell them officially, but Im sure if you search the internet you will find them. If not you are more than welcome to call around some evening and I can show them to you. I cant make you a copy as that is against the law (piracy).

    Im glad you have an interest in learning how to use the Keris as a Fighting weapon. If you interested Pendekar Sanders my teacher has a video which you can get from his website or if the Kunjang is more to your teaste I have a kunjang dvd which you can get. This was recoreded at Pendekar Sanders last seminar in Dublin in 2005 and has a number of training drills on it.

    Hopefully see you soon

    Liam
     
  4. Jawara

    Jawara New Member

    Thanks for the invitation. I think I'll pass. :cool:
     
  5. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Thank you Guru Besar Cimande Liam Mcdonald Sir!

    Could you please explain to me in what schools these Guru Besar teach and what Guru Besar Disparus means? I have never in my life seen or heard the word disparus!

    Cheers
    KC
     
  6. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Peace to all,

    Guru Besar Cimande Liam McDonald, Sir!

    I am not, have not attacked your system. I don't want to get this silat forum closed because you get upset, so I posted an open letter to you on the French Forum you mentioned. Please invite Mr Sanders also to visit http://pencaksilat.free.fr/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2777#2777 I would be honored to have him answer my questions there.

    Warm salams to all,

    Kiai Carita.
     
  7. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    I see even the other forum doesnt put up with your war-mongering Kiai.

    :D
     
  8. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    Hi Kiai

    The Guru Besar's you asked me about and what does their titles mean is actually on the French website you been promoting, and writing on , which is run by mas Gorka who I believe is a close friend of yours . He a very excellent Cimande player. I'm sure he is a much better postion to answer your questions. Hope this helps. Pendekar Sanders has asked me to informed you or any other student, he is more than willing for you to contact him directly by email to answer your questions or you more than welcome to attend any seminars that he teaches and bring forward your questions in the old ways. In this way respect and honour is upheld and will stop this silly and pointless finger tip fued.
    This hopefully will end this situation.

    Peace to all and respect

    Liam
     
  9. Gorka

    Gorka Valued Member

    Hi everyone,

    Just a short post as <another forum> administrator.
    I've decided to close the thread "Open letter to Liam Mc Donald"
    because it will automaticly bring hate and war :woo: on our forum and I really don't want this. I'll fight against this attitude on all the threads that will be create on our forum from any authors

    To Liam Mc Donald, I just want to be clear about something.
    You mentioned that Kiai Carita is "a close friend of mine" you also said previously that he was Jeff and I "talking man". I just want you to know that I don't Kiai Carita well. He has just registred on our forum and I read some really nice comments he wrote on this forum about my work. That's all. I don't need any "talking men", if I've something to say, I'll do by my own (I also think that it's the same for Jeff).
    But may be you're right, may be with time Kai Carita will become one of my friend... Only God knows...

    If other english language pencak silat lovers want to share their knowledge an their questions peacefully, you're all welcome on the english language part of our forum at :
    <another forum>


    Peace to all
    Wassalam
    Gorka
    http://pencaksilat.free.fr/phpBB2/index.php
    http://www.cimandefrance.com
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2006
  10. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    Internet Wars – Official response

    Due to recent events which have been fronted and fuelled by e person on this forum. Who has taken apon himself to launch bitter attack after attack . Which has gone on for many months and despite us answering all his questions, he has refused to accept our freedom to express our views in relation to Pukulan Cimande Pusaka.

    We have therefore decided from 16th Jan 9am We will use this official response on all future threads and that we not enter into any further discussion with him or other names he may use. We will also no longer enter discussion on any thread which has been started or hi jacked by him. Nor will we enter into any thread which are filled with jealousy and undercover malice. We will take part in threads where the topic is about the Martial Art and not about promoting one religion over another, or race or one’s political view.

    Pukulan Cimande Pusaka runs a number of website at www.silateurope.com you will see details of classes, articles, upcoming seminars. We believe this website offers enough information to the Martial Arts World to get an Ideal of what we about. If you have any question you may email me directly and I will respond or better still get up from the computer and come down to a class. You can also contact Pendekar Sanders the founder of our system at www.cimande.com

    Pukulan Cimande Pusaka host’s a number of classes and workshops. These classes are open to all people Christians, Muslims, Hind, Non believers etc.. Its open to all Nationalities and Age and Gender. We are now concentrating on our continual development and promotions. We wish the Silat Brotherhood and Sisterhood Peace and goodwill and you will always be most welcome in any of our classes.


    Liam
     
  11. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    I wish I'd never started this thread.

    I did so because I wished to start a discussion regarding the interpretation of Silat in different cultures. After all Silat is interpreted differently in different areas of Indonesia yet it is still Silat.

    I had hoped if people could agree that they were just looking at the same thing from different angles there could be at least some reconciliation.

    I am used to a bit of cross-cultural misunderstanding. I am English and My wife is Javanese. I have spent a lot of time in Indonesia. I know things can get mixed up sometimes.

    My Wife's family have a strong family Silat tradition. Her Grandfather was a 'Jago' and used Silat against the occupying Japanese in WW2. Her Grandmother has many horrifying stories from this time.

    My point! I, as a Westerner, a 'bule', am learning Silat and my in-laws are pleased about this. I have always found Indonesians to be a warm and tolerant people which is why I find these petty arguements so disappointing.

    As I said in the first post, I did not wish to "Tarik kuping harimau!". This is a Javanese saying "pull the tigers ear".

    However there does seem to have been a lot of ear pulling going on here!
     
  12. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    This thread has gone far beyond the realms of retreival.

    closed
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page