In demos I could agree,but in the context of ph training sending people flying is merely using (usually) long power to enable one to practice issuing on another person without damaging them,a very standard practice-'cause if you have to wait ten minutes for somebody to recover from a sucker punch to the liver not much training is gonna be happening.Long power uproots in and of themselves are neither watered down nor sporting aspects. Of course it's certainly not the only kind of issuing that should be practiced in ph over time,it's a basic skill. Now,if that's all an individual can do then they have a very limited skill in issuing,so you could say if that's all they can teach in that area then they are indeed teaching a watered down version-if they're saying that's all there is rather than admitting to their limited skill/knowledge. As you know I somewhat detest the term "internal" but for the sake of definition in discussion I use the term but only as regards that which can be observed/measured-which is to say the mechanics found in some systems which are cultivated by those gungs. An initially conscious control and exercising/segmenting of muscle groups neither normally utilized in certain ways and/or not under conscious control prior to such training. I've yet to speak with any "pure" Karateka who had a clue about things like expanding/contracting connective tissues or opening/closing joints in the manner developed by those gungs. Based on years of observing,listening,discussing and reading my own conclusion (perhaps erroneous) is that Karate doesn't have that kind of "internal" power.Not to say that it's an impossibility that someone may have such teachings locked in their "cabinet of secrets" only for their successor or something.
yeah, THAT kind of internal? none at all, at least that i've ever heard of there are however some people who associate more with the stuff that preceded karate (some of which apparently still exists in some shape, as indicated by the presence of said people) who seem to have somewhat similar practices, although of course i have no way of telling how similar, if at all.
Seigo Yamaguchi [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1rDxIz1ZVc"]Seigo Yamaguchi Aikido - YouTube[/ame]
I've seen some similarities with some of the "internal" training I have done, some examples here: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqTgZ9y3za0"]Taira bunkai Fundamentals - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grZj3b1OVas"]Sanchin (The Essence of Goju Ryu) - YouTube[/ame] Some info related to the later vid in below thread too, as well as some historical stuff I dug up on wiki: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116533 Another thing we should consider is the specific language and ideas used in IMA are quite distinct, perhaps there are more similarities under the surface. However, I would have thought that karate would have its own set of terms to describe some “internal” mechanics etc, but from what I have seen this does not exist on a general level, perhaps on a more personal level (i.e. specific teachers).
I've trained with Shiomitsu Masafumi sensei a few times and his understanding of movement and body mechanics in general is second to none. Also, thanks to a senior board member here I've been on the receiving end of some Tenjin Shinyo-ryu techniques and yes, they do bear a striking resemblance to a lot of Wado kata (particularly Idori and Tanto-dori), however I think it’s one of those things that unless you train regularly (with someone that really knows their stuff) you are just playing at it really – the devil really is in the detail (and I can tell you that unlike the rather sanitised Wado version they hurt like feck)! Perhaps wrongly, but the feeling I get when I watch Klemola's stuff is that it's not quite there.
Gary, think i'm going to start another thread on this, getting quite far away from the op's question.
