Independents

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Kobudo, Jul 14, 2011.

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  1. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Actually, all the Shihan and Doron were there in the 70s so that is when the real hardcore training was done. Before it was known to the masses. Of course in the 80s, there were still a few around who didn't really fit into the SOI tribe either so yeah there were still those who were a bit different from the average crowd you see since then.

    So if you have been training in Japan for 9 years primarily at Shihan dojos(not sure which shihan or if you are their personal student), then does your take on the art vary significantly? If a certain Shihan has taken you under his wing and taken responsibility for your development in the art, then I would be suprised if it does. Of course if you are just another gaijin in the crowd who doesn't understand Japanese or her culture, then your experience could be wildly different too.

    Actually, I am not "obstinately demanding" your name or who you train under. It matters little to me. If you want to share that information then fine, if not no biggie. If your posts show that you understand the art, then that is good enough. If not, then that also says enough.

    We seem to be getting off topic, I don't really know how this pertains to Independents but....:cool:

    ps-ah yes, real world experience. Experience with physical conflict outside the dojo setting.
     
  2. jwills79

    jwills79 Valued Member



    We can get back on topic now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  3. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Thanks for getting us back on topic.

     
  4. jwills79

    jwills79 Valued Member

    I'm done! Goodnight
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  5. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Okay, you want proof, then ask me a question about the art that you couldn't know if you didn't train from the source. See, I could ask you about your understanding of any number of things to see how much you had learned but I really don't care what you know. If we meet at training it is easy enough to find out what you do or do not know. Oyasumi nasai!


     
  6. george rodger

    george rodger Valued Member

    Fisticuffs under the supervision of a Shihan seems the way forward.
    My money is on the one who is biggest .
     
  7. bujingodai

    bujingodai Retired Supporter

    Man off on a tangent this one got. Wonder why I never discussed my situation. My original point stands.

    I do however agree that if you wish to call someone out, you yourself need to put the coins on the table. It adds credence to it.
    That being said, as abrasive as RP comes across. It is obvious he does know what he is speaking about. I would wonder in person how he would come across. I am guessing more open minded as there would be a personal connection.

    I used to say the same about Don, but he isn't as nasty anymore. He must be getting old. :D I have quite a high level of respect for Don as well, even though over the years on the board we had been quite at each other.

    So again with all that being said can we get back to the orginal point, not proving or disproving someones legitamicy there location or proving who trained with who or who gets more Shihan attention yadda yadda.

    Though, the thread is proof positive why an "indie" would maybe hesitate to discuss their path.
     
  8. garth

    garth Valued Member

    I'm not really concerning myself with what RP is saying anymore. Its the hypocritical manner of his discussion wanting evidence and questions from me but not willing to provide them himself. but a couple of things did jump out at me.

    I wish this was true. the venue we rent costs over £500 per month and i no where near make that sort of money. Most months am out of pocket and I havent made a bean sinc it opened. Thank God we also make money for the rent from SIA training.

    I run one class a week and I charge £5 a lesson and £10 membership.

    I run one class a week and on a good night we get 12 people.

    So please tell me how i'm making $$$$.

    PS its ££££ in the UK.

    So please RP tll me how i'm making any money.

    I guess it depends what you mean by credentials. apart from saying that credentials mean little in the Bujinkan, I do have certificates, grades, photos etc from over the last 26-27 years.

    Oh come on. how many Genbukan people are there on MAP?
     
  9. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    My spontaneous guess would be that Japan isn't quite in the same league as Britain or South Africa in terms of stabbings.
     
  10. bujingodai

    bujingodai Retired Supporter



    Hey one of my students dropped off a 40$ donation to me this morning at work. So I've made 40 bucks this month.

    back on topic
     
  11. george rodger

    george rodger Valued Member

    That is $40 more than me I don't charge(and before anyone says it ,;)I know its not worth paying for)
     
  12. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Wow. So you were a 5th Dan, eh?
     
  13. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Did I say you were making money? You are running a business based on your martial arts experience, including your time you believe you were learning a "Japanese martial art." That is what I mean by cashing in on your claims. Now, why you might not be making money is another story. However, if you read back through the last 5 years of your posts from various forums it might come to you.

    Not to be rude or condescending but if I ever decide to teach, there will be plenty to back up my claims of ability and knowledge(besides the obvious ability and knowledge). I can prove that I have lived in Japan for 10 years and who I trained under, and not just from pictures taken with the boss during tea time or autographed books and calligraphy. Just because most people on MAP may be unaware of who I am, I assure you that my teacher and my classmates are. As do others I have crossed paths and fists with here in Japan and back home.

    I never seriously demand for people's credentials, not because I haven't shared mine on an internet forum, but because I am not a prospective student. Believe me though, if I was going to dojos looking for lessons I would be asking. As some people who read these forums are actively looking for lessons in authentic martial arts(ninjutsu as the case is for this fourm), it is our responsibility to tell them the truth and illuminate issues that they might be unaware of if we know.

    Yes, certain forms of accolades are meaningless. A rank that is ridiculously high is one, as is a medal or the fact that you are teaching a seminar about the latest and greatest thing that they are doing over here in Japan. Claiming a number of years in the Bujinkan(or in and out or around or whatever) is another such claim that can have little meaning.

    Even living in Japan for a long time can be unimpressive if you made the wrong training choices while here. This is something that even I have been very vocal about. However, using these facts as a way to explain away your own lack of credentials is disingenuous. There are credentials even in the Bujinkan that mean something, and they are not easy to get. Those who have them will know what I am talking about.

    Garth has continued to take potshots at Hatsumi sensei, the Bujinkan, and other people for all these years yet gets defensive when others question him. He has also gone through back and forth post fighting with many forum members during this time. This can be verified by looking back through old threads(as I did recently).

    If I am lying about anything, it is very easy to find out. I am not the only person living in Japan and not the only foreigner who trains at my teacher's dojo or other ones. If I was making things up I am sure Don or jwillis or somebody would speak up and out.

    There are Genbukan people on this forum and though not as many as Bujinkan members, they are quite vocal when they want to be. Excuses always ring hollow. I am pretty much done with this thread, as it seems to be going in circles. I believe people like Bujingodai have a good heart and are trying their best, but for those who make things up or lie about their background, I feel little sympathy.

    ps-sorry, I don't have a pound button on my computer. Just yen and good ol' dollars.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  14. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    It only takes once if you are unlucky.
     
  15. george rodger

    george rodger Valued Member

    How did you get there from that?
     
  16. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    You were able to sense the impending doom of multiple attacks. ;)
     
  17. bujingodai

    bujingodai Retired Supporter

    :woo: Is there anyone that actually wants to discuss why one did become an independent?

    Do we need this to get closed.

    However I am guessing other than Garth, George, Steve and myself there are not really any other posters on MAP running outside the Kan pantheon.
     
  18. The Unholy

    The Unholy Banned Banned

    Of course, that kind of leads to another question I have always had.

    You, Dave, post here because you are calling what you do ninjutsu and you have an interest in continuing to pick up stuff. At the same time, every other post by you is not some sort of snide comment about other organizations you left.

    So why are folks that have left the ninjutsu organizations in Japan, say they are not calling what they do ninjutsu and say they have no interest in continuing the same path some of the most prolific posters here?

    Wouldn't they be better in someplace like the mixed martial art section?

    No, I am still nasty. The saddest day in a child's life is not when they find out Santa Claus does not exist, it is when they find out I do.
     
  19. george rodger

    george rodger Valued Member

    You could ask why there is a sub section for Ninjutsu when there is no such martial art and nobody even seems to admit to either learning it or teaching it
     
  20. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Jack Skellington? I suppose that is a bit unholy.

    edit: Nice avatar!
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
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