In their prime? Ali vs Tyson.

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Combat Sports, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    That may have been what Tyson WAS, but there were a lot of things that he wasn't. He didn't have the heart or the mentality to go a distance in a fight where he was taking a lot of shots or a situation where he felt like he was losing. No boxing "historian" would have lost to Buster Douglas the way he did. He didn't just lose by a fluke KO the way Lewis lost to Rahman, he was losing the fight in general. Getting outboxed by a guy who didn't fear him and then lost to a Holyfield that got beat by James Toney who was never a true HW... just a fat guy. Tyson's age and his "power" is what made him so popular. Had he been another guy who was in his late 20's or early 30's he wouldn't have been considered so special.
  2. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Frazier would not have beaten Louis.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Clearly we have very different definitions of what this word means......
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Joe Louis would tuck Frazier into bed and kiss him goodnight :)

    Louis moved every bit as smoothly as Ali, with the added bonus that he hit like a truck. Frazier was annihilated by Foreman, so imagine what someone with that level of power AND skill would have done to him

    70 fights, W - 66 (KO 52) L - 3 N/C -1

    Joe Louis also coined one of my favourite maxims - "Everyone has a plan until they've been hit"
  5. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    I'm no fan of Iron mike but thought i'd pick up on a few things.

    Similair to when Ali intentionally cut his glove to buy him some time against Henry Cooper you mean? Or when when Henry almost 30 pounds lighter dropped him with that beautiful left hook of his "enry's Ammer" (Henry's Hammer). At which Point Angelo Dundee guides Ali then Cassius Clay back to to his corner in serious violation of the rules and in further violation gives him smelling salts to wake him up.

    Getting beat from Trevor berbick is no emabarassment but i seem to recall Ali getting beat by Leon Spinks. Yes it is recorded, Leon Spinks beat Muhammad Ali.

    Happens all the time, the first Fight with Sunny Liston springs to mind. Amid lots of contraversy about Liston being threatened by the mob if he won etc. The gets dropped by what is commonly know as the "Phantom Punch"

    Tysons Ability is what made him special

  6. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    We could debate this all day but i'll see your Joe louis and raise you Lenny Mclean.

    [ame=""]lenny mclean vs roy shaw - YouTube[/ame]

    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Big fan of "The Guvnor" and on the cobbles? Lenny

    In the ring? He should not even be mentioned in the same breath

    He was twice KO'd by Johnny Waldron in times in the first and was also knocked out in the first round by George Langley. He also suffered stoppage losses twice against Cliff Field, and was beaten on points by Kevin Paddock
  8. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    Just thought i'd throw him. Great heart and fantastic fighter and you are correct he shouldn't be mentioned with Joe Luis but had to show that fight with Roy Shaw just for others to see. He's worth watching.

  9. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    Marciano vs tyson ? Go
  10. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    I love these match ups.

  11. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    mclean lost to shaw too.
  12. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i agree with hannibal. it's not that tyson would be bad. but ali was just ridiculously good. honestly, i just can't see tyson at age 32 being able to beat a george foreman type.
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Wrong thread!
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    True - but to be fair he also mopped the floor with him in the two rematches
  15. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    Tyson's alleged to have ducked foreman when he came back in the late 80s
  16. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Let me ask you this, firstly, I am the one who posted the article on Ali(Clay) vs. Liston, so clearly you read it and are bringing up the "phantom punch". So does that mean that Foreman, Frazier and all of his other opposition was also threatened by the mob?

    Secondly... are you really bringing up a completely out of his prime Ali who was only fighting for money at that point that lost to Spinks? Did you forget he also beat Spinks too? Might want to check your facts there.

    Third... should we bring up some of the complete losers that Tyson lost to? Oh wait... he lost to the great Kevin McBride who lost to a guy with a 20-29 guy... give me a break dude. You knowledge of boxing sucks.
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    A walking tank with a granite chin and thunder in his gloves? I would have too!!

    Mind you "Commander" Vander showed how it should be done!
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    There was no such thing as the "Phantom Punch" was a short right bang on the chin from out of the view of Liston
  19. Rhythmkiller

    Rhythmkiller Animo Non Astutia

    Absolutely not, Muhammad Ali was a class act and never at any point did i say he wasn't. Offering a different perspective is all. The phantom punch is common knowledge. The contact didn't look like it should have put liston down.

    Nope i never forgot he beat leon Spinks, i was making it known that Leon Spinks beat Ali. The facts are the facts. We'll call it a draw. A few concessions have to be made - Ali was on the down slide as my previous post were i alluded to the Berbick fight states. But most people and i'm guessing you'll agree that Ali wasn't so smart as to stop when his time was done. Leon Spinks beat who was in front of him. Ali beat him to. Not hiding that simPLy expressing the blip on Ali's career.

    You can bring up as much Tyson losers as you wish lol i'm not a fan, but for the hell of it i'll chuck in Danny williams - simply adding to the question which i enjoy regardless of my sucky boxing knowledge. Kevin McBride is a legend lol

  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Does anyone else remeber when Julius Francis sold promotional space on the bottom of his boots when he fought Tyson?



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