Improved for modern use???

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by Kobudo, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    You hear this all the time - it's 'improved' to be useful for self defence in modern times

    Now I'm of the opinion that traditional systems have all you need to be effective already, if you train and understand the kata beyond the outward appearance, or you look at the actual waza training outside of kata, etc...

    To put this to the test, what I'm interested in, from a self defence point of view, is whether anyone can post a video, link, explanation, here of something they consider to be 'new' or 'improved'

    Anyone else can then post a link, video, explanation, etc, if they believe it already exists in a Koryu system...
     
  2. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Training that meets modern day contexts and HAOV, that won't necessarily be found in the older stuff. Integration of legal aspects which again would differ to what you might come across in old school systems.

    Development of soft skills, modern weapon usage, E&E for modern urban environments, up to date first aid.

    Traditional systems have a lot to offer but they are lacking too.
     
  3. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    I don't think there are many claims of new techniques that couldn't be found in koryu somewhere, but rather new adaptations and tactics due to modernisation. For example, you likely won't find koryu techniques specifically designed to deal with pistols or bottle attacks, however you can adapt existing techniques from older styles to match these relatively new threats.

    The other form of modernisation is the approach to training. Many schools/associations have largely given up on the idea of kata as the basis for training everything and have moved on to more "live" training methods. This leads to more variations on core techniques, which might be seen as new by some.
     
  4. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I know from a friend that koryu deals with bottle attacks very well.

    :D


    Anyway it's the tea cups and pot lids you have to watch out for with the old stuff. :p
     
  5. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    This leads to more variations on core techniques, which might be seen as new by some.

    If it is variations on core techniques, is this not just henka?


    For example, you likely won't find koryu techniques specifically designed to deal with pistols or bottle attacks, however you can adapt existing techniques from older styles to match these relatively new threats.

    Again, henka - new threats exist, but is there any new methodology in dealing with them?

    Don't get me wrong, I know there are newer threats, newer training methods, legal considerations, situational awareness, etc... But what I want to see is if anyone can give an example of something new when looking at material - not just a henka of something already there...

    Eg, seringues are a modern form of street attack - but although the threat is new, if you apply strategy for stabbing weapons....
     
  6. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    The body can only move in so many ways...

    Applications of techniques can be adapted ..

    be it Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Scottish, American.....

    I dont really think there can be anything new ....mankind has had way too long to discover the techniques of fighting arts

    Smurf
     
  7. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Every technique can be considered a variation of another. What makes it a new technique is simply how broad you defined the brush of that technique and each variation of it.

    It's a discussion that will just go around in circles as everyone will have a different definition of what defines each technique.

    I pretty much agree with what Smurf has said above. Humans have had the same basic body structure or two arms, two legs, a head and joints bending at certain angles for a long long time. We've also been smart enough to pick up stick of various lengths and hit each other with them for a long time too. Long enough to find effective ways of use all that as a weapon or in defence.

    The only relatively modern addition may be focused on around the use of projectile weapons such as firearms. But then again you will get into the issue of the lack of definition for a 'traditional' art.
     
  8. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Righty you put it so much more eloquently than I ever could..

    Thanks

    Smurf
     
  9. rne02

    rne02 Valued Member

    I don't think there is anything "new". People have been fighting/at war for thousands of years, pretty much every variation of every move has been tested at some point.

    The "lest" craze we had at our dojo was Defence Lab which is apparently what Tom Cruise does in the Jack Reacher film. I thought the use of the arms to cover the face was interesting, only afterwards for my ju-Jitsu instructor to tell me his instructor had exactly the same thing, but he called it the "Jitsu mask".

    I would imagine most of these "new" things that get banded about are probably this that were originally in Traditional Arts, but have been lost/taken out in the last 100 years as the focus of most arts has shifted towards sport and a lot of the brutal stuff has been taken out to make training safer.
     
  10. Hazmatac

    Hazmatac Valued Member

    As far as the throws, groundwork, and locks, I don't think there is or needs to be (at least much) of an improvement. However, since this is a style geared towards people wearing armor, at least as I understand it a lot of strikes were left out. If anything were to be improved in a big way in the system I would say it is to add a good striking component to your jujitsu, as no one walks around with armor anymore.

    Oh yeah, although there is one technique that is coming to mind right now: the firemans carry. This may be best to be adapted by going for a more folkstyle wrestling throw more then lifting your opponent off the ground, so you stay on the ground and bring your opponent over you.
     

Share This Page