I'm new here...

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Mark 42, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Honestly? Think about what you want to say, type it, then leave it. Come back to it later after people have started answering and write a new post to clarify, redirect, or enrich the discussion if necessary.

    Think of it as a slow conversation; you don't get to go back and alter your original statements, just clarify or adjust them over time.

    Mitch :)
     
  2. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    Best solution would be for me to proofread before posting.
    I have a hard time leaving it when I find a typo, or if I read
    it and think of a better word in a sentence. It's never caused
    a problem before though.

    I do remember that I got interrupted in one of the posts,
    finished it offline, then pasted the second part in an edit.

    I appended "and good exercise,
    but may not be very useful for self defense).
    Maybe the lessons will become valuable after the initial instruction is done if the focus shifts
    to real martial arts (There is such thing as proper Ninjutsu that is taught in a useful / genuine
    martial art, no?) " to an existing post because I had to leave."

    But I didn't think I changed any content.
    I'll be careful not to do that, but id it's just the time stamp
    that is causing a problem... that would be a bit much.

    I'll be more careful next time to only fix typos.

    I prefer to add to existing posts if I can - rather than run up my post count.
    I know that's opposite many people.

    Addendum: obviously I care about this. I don't like to offend people, especially when
    they are trying to help me. Maybe I shouldn't add this part, but I didn't want to put it
    in a seperate post - but I don't understand why this would be a problem.
    I'm not rude - just socially challenged. What some people find natural, I have
    to work harder at to appear "normal".
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  3. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    I once mistakenly took Ambien with my morning allergy meds. Man, was I looped!

    I read that entire thread because it was so interesting (and, IMHO, important).
    There were a number of good posts in it, and I would love to send my kids to a
    school lead by someone with an attitude like Chimpcheng's
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  4. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    It is possible that I might have read a response, looked at what I wrote,
    realized what I wrote didn't clarify what I meant, and then edited it
    w/o thinking about how it would change the context of the response.

    I don't think I did that, but it's possible.

    I'd just like to figure out what really happened and why it was offensive.
    I can't learn from a mistake if I don't know why it caused a problem.
     
  5. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    I've a friend who has asperger's. I was also called a person with autism. (although i dont believe it, i'm quite socially aware and see things others don't) I even dated my friend for a time and realized neither one of us understood the other. Him not understanding my jokes, and me being frustrated that he thought i was a bully. We did patch it up though and I learned that its right what you said, They don't understand , not cause they are rude but because 'What some people find natural, I have
    to work harder at to appear "normal".
    as you said.
     
  6. cotnob

    cotnob New Member

    Interesting story, my youngest son is autistic and we have found that Taekwondo has really improved his motor skills. I originally took both my sons along to a taster session at the local Taekwondo school, joined in and thoroughly enjoyed it. That was 9 months or so ago and since then I have started kickboxing as well. Never felt fitter than I do now and have also found the bebefits rubbing off at work in that I am far more focussed and determined.

    My youngest son doesn't spar, his brother does, but as he is 15 and 6'3" tall he has to spar with the adults rather than juniors. Have had Darth Vader v Luke Skywalker comments on occasion :).
     
  7. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    Thanks!
    I finally made it to the Dragon Center to check it out.
    It does have contracts, but you can enroll on a month by month basis,
    but it's more expensive (which makes sense - it's like a bulk discount
    when you sign a contract). They do have promotion fees, which covers
    the test and everything - they didn't seem unreasonable.
    The proprietor and his son do all of the teaching, and only occasionally
    use upper level students to help.
    He does want students to buy equipment through him, but said a basic
    set of sparring gear is about $100, and if I find it cheaper, I can see if
    he will match the price. He said he also has some used gear for loaners,
    and when he gets too much used stuff, he occasionally will sell some
    to students for pretty cheap (like $25 for a set).

    It does sound like they are a business, but are not a McDojo either.

    But it's quite expensive (on the scale of Schools we have compared so far).

    I watched a bit of one of the classes, but it was for the youngest students.
    It looked very well taught. He invited me to stop by anytime to watch a
    class, no need to call ahead.

    Seemed very up front, but also seemed to want to tell me what he thought
    I would want to hear (just a little, and that may just be my wariness).

    It's only 1/4 mile from home, and if our kids enroll, my wife and I can study
    along with them for free (not sure if that just means follow along, or
    be classified as students to obtain belt rankings and the whole deal).

    It's tempting, but expensive for us.
     
  8. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    Drew got his first promotion last night.
    I took pictures during most of the class - I didn't even know he
    was going to test for the next belt when I packed my camera
    along with me - it was good timing.

    http://www.pbase.com/mark_42/martial_arts
     
  9. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Congratulations! Looks like he was concentrating really hard but enjoying it too.

    Mitch
     
  10. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    Fortunately Sensei had an older girl test first... Drew knew the material, but
    he froze from nervousness during the first question, looked nervous for the
    second one, but then settled in to it after that. I think seeing someone
    else succeed first helped him know that it could be done - probably a
    good thing she didn't choke, else he might have been terrified. OTOH,
    seeing how long & difficult the test was might be why he was so nervous
    when his turn came.

    The physical tasks are easy for him - partly because he loves to practice
    them - so much that I have to stop him so the noise doesn't drive me nuts.

    The more academic tasks (e.g. Japanese terminology) are harder for him,
    mainly because he has test anxiety.

    My daughter is more like I am - scholastic style tests are no problem,
    but physical coordination and tasks are a challenge. She opted not to
    test yet. I think when they lined up according to rank, which had been
    done by height up to now, when her brother and her were told to switch
    places, she had a bit of regret at not studying harder and taking the test.
    (The other girl who tested and made the next belt had already been in
    the same spot she ended up in).

    Getting my daughter to practice the physical tasks is worse than pulling teeth.
    I was never athletic, but if I was engaged in a pursuit that required practice,
    I always practiced a lot, especially if I had as much desire to be involved in
    the activity as they both have. I need to figure out a way to use their enthusiasm
    into inspiration and then motivation. I am trying to find a good way to make
    them want to work on their weaknesses.

    With physical tasks, it wasn't hard to get my son to work hardest on his weaknesses,
    and he did work very hard at learning the knowledge based material.

    Hopefully, watching her brother get the promotion will light a fire under my daughter
    to work harder now.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2011
  11. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Hiyer, China Plate

    Pass along the high-fives to your son. Enjoyed the poses. It's motivating me to get my cheeky chappies pics up.

    I noticed on a gallery called 'boardsports', you had some cad dwg.s up. I used to do that kind of stuff at machine shops - MasterCam, SolidWorks, AutoCad, etc.

    Anyroad, glad to hear from ya, 'gain.
     
  12. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

  13. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Well a round of congrads is in order. You'll find as I did, after a couple of years her spatial coordination and the other issues as we discussed will markedly improved...to the point where you will eventually have to remind yourself that there was an issue to begin with!

    Ask her if knuckle push-ups are fun...;)
     
  14. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    Corder Sensei lets them cheat a bit...

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    Went to a Kajukenbo school near our house.

    It has a lot of positives going for it, and I think we'll probably switch from the
    Ninjutsu classes to that school, depending on a couple of factors.

    My wife & son are all for it, my daughter really likes LARPing as a Ninja.
    I was a lot more bluntly honest with her last night about the fact that very
    little of the stuff at Ninjutsu is of practical use (at least, that's what I think...
    does anyone ever actually use forward rolls, backward rolls, or cartwheels in a fight?)

    Each one has positives and negatives for/against it. I'm writing a list
    so I can see my thoughts on paper.

    We may also have a look at a local Kung Fu school as well.

    It's a little hard to leave the Ninjutsu place because the Sensei is a good guy,
    and we've established a fond acquaintance type relationship... but I think
    the classes are more like a scouting experience than real practical martial arts.
    There is value to stuff like scholastic achievement patches for doing well at school,
    but I don't think the kids are going to be able to use what they are learning to
    defend themselves unless they stay there for many years (if ever).

    Call me a doubter, but the Ninjutsu spends a lot of time on ceremony,
    and on stuff like using & defending against swords & shuriken, etc.

    Some of the ceremony is in conflict with our religious beliefs, which
    has always been a major sticking point for us, and is the biggest
    reason we keep looking for another Dojo to attend.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  16. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Aye, well I'd not necessarily pull her out of the Ninjutsu place right off. Especially as "It's a little hard to leave the Ninjutsu place because the Sensei is a good guy,
    and we've established a fond acquaintance type relationship..." I've to tell ya, that in itself, is not as easily found as you'd think. Whatever place you put her in, regardless of the reasons for, there will be holes in their game, or elements that you'd not thought of previously that will become detractors.

    The grass is always greener...you'n count on it.

    If dressing up in black pajamas motivates her to do calesthinics, why not? Thing with kids is, especially when it comes to things that are just plain hard work, so much of it is in the motivation...in the trappings, the garb, the cosutume that you put on the work. For some, the idea of wearing a Manchester United jersey, Liverpool FC, whatever, is what enables 'em to do wind sprints on hot afternoons till they vomit, for others its wearing leotards and working on the vault apparatus...its really the same thing, in different costumes, different guises.

    I'll pick up on it again, in a bit. My computers about to shut down for its corporate mandated update...
     
  17. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Nothing wrong with flexibility, friend. I enrolled my son in a formal gymnastics school 'cause the Taekwondo place doesn't have it in their curriculum - and aerial acrobatics was one of the early motivators for him to want to take MAs in the first place. No, it doesn't appear to have an obvious practical use in combat - but its amasing how many ( do you keep up with UFC, Strikeforce? ) light-heavyweights can do back-flips, vaults, cartwheels with ease.

    If they are incorporating gymnastics in their curriculum, it'd be more of a reason to stay than to leave.

    It sounds like you reaching the point that I did with respects to what I thought my kids should be getting and what I thought they needed, what was a waste and what was critical. I realised that what I was trying to do was to put 'em in the equivalent of the SAS's hand-to-hand combat course - and they aren't ready for it.

    When I first joined MAP, I was debating this with meself, I had the same concerns about practicality and usefulness of his MA as you do and one of the MAPers here suggested that I put my son in a real boxing school - which I did.

    The MMA academy I put my kids in is a good school. A very good one, in fact. Its also rough. The kids are rougher - more street, more mature than mine at the same age. Their dads who bring 'em aint the sort I'd want to cross and I mind myself very well.

    And when its sparring day, those tough little nuts have tears in their eyes...I'm f****** amased cause those little guys are able to control their emotions in there. Mine haven't started sparring yet, and I've pangs as to whether one of 'em is ready for it, emotionally. Its not the physical.

    It dawned on me that emotional stress is what seperates this place from the traditional MA place(s) my kids go to. Its emotion control and no traditional MA school that I've seen even comes close to it as far as the emotional stress they're under goes.

    Now, the question you've to ask yourself, is your daughter ready for that? I'm still in the process of that for one of mine. And, ya know, WE cant answer that. Only they can.

    And when they do answer, we have to be ready to hear that answer. If she isn't, don't worry. When she's ready, she'll be ready.

    The ninjitsu place really dosen't sound all that bad to me...
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  18. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Here's the thing. Whether its Ninjitsu - Japan, KungFu- Sholin, Daoism, Buddhism, etc., the closer one gets to "the real thing", the more inistricably linked a given martial art is to the religious, philisophical and cultural flower-beds from which the respective art sprang and flourished.

    We here in the West are used to and have come to expect a kind of 'secularized' version of everything and to a very large extent, thats what we have. It might be said that divorcing the physical manifestation of a given martial art from its spiritual/philisophical underpinnings is in part, to blame for the 'watering down' of martial arts - which is something you no doubt read a bit about if you browse the threads here on MAP.

    I really don't know, and even if thats true, there are obvious limits to that. For instance, being conversant in Arabic or having any understanding of Arab culture or history wasn't a preuiquisite for the scientists who made advances in the fields of topology, linear programming and so forth - all having a base in Algebra - a mathematical art developed by the ancient arabs, or so I think I heard somewhere.

    Anyroad, in Asia, the religious and philisophical roots are much more stongly tied than here. I remember visiting some of the Temples north with my wife and father-in-law - who are from PRC, and the feeling I got was that GongFu, the martial art that is, was not THE central tenent, but only one manifistation of the whole. In other words, the physical martial art seemed to be secondary to the philisophical.

    You could take that up with others here, who know a lot more 'n me on this, It just seemed that way.

    Long winded, this evening, aint I?
     
  19. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    Excellent thought Belltoller - I will definitely give those thoughts consideration.
    I'd hate to change schools and regret it later because my daughter loses
    interest in MA altogether. My son is fine with anyplace - he will jump in
    with both feet to whatever we do - even if it were figure skating (okay, maybe not...)
     
  20. Mark 42

    Mark 42 Senior Newbie

    We went to the Kung Fu school...

    It goes by a couple of names on the web (which made me suspicious, and
    is probably why it wasn't originally high on my list of schools to look at)
    The website(s) also make it look like a McDojo (Links are included Below).
    They are definitely running a business. They gave us a tour which was like
    a timeshare presentation. I had just about written them off, until we spent
    time with the head teacher of the Federal Way Dojo (2nd degree, BB, overseen
    by a higher level at the main HQ - I think they have 3 or 4 local Dojos (Kwoons?)

    The Teacher was pretty forthright in giving information.
    They have no test fees. They do use contracts, starting with 9 month.
    They have a "Blackbelt Club", which is a McDojo red flag (for me).
    Rates are reasonable, and 2nd family member is 50% discount,
    3rd one is 75% discounted, 4th one would be free (trying to talk
    my wife into at least trying it).

    He did claim that because of their combination of classroom and private
    instruction they can teach a person to a blackbelt knowledge/ability
    level much faster than most schools. He said it didn't mean one could
    be guaranteed to get a blackbelt in that time amount (about 2 years),
    but they would have the knowledge and ability most schools take
    twice as long to teach a student. I take that with a pound of salt.
    It was more of a negative than a positive to hear him say that...
    It seemed there was a lot of marketing emphasis...

    But his answers to my specific questions were not dodgy and
    were reasonable (like the cost, the reqd eqpt, what happens if
    we can't finish a contract period, etc.).

    They do engage in sparring - I'm not sure exactly what kind.
    Will write down more questions to ask if/when we go back.

    Watching him teach a student, I was impressed. His movements
    definitely looked (to me) like those of a skilled martial artist.
    I don't know if a 2nd Deg. blackbelt is qualified to be head teacher
    at a school, but I was impressed with what I saw.

    Al in all, it looked like a good school where we could learn a
    good mixture of striking and grappling (he says they teach both
    in order to produce well rounded martial artists). The teaching
    looks well structured, and the students I saw looked like they
    were not sloppy or unfocused.

    Students are expected to arrive early and stretch/exercise/prepare
    on their own (after being taught how) to save class time for instruction.

    It's a bit unfortunate that they do present themselves like a business
    more than a place where the real focus is learning. Maybe I'm more
    cynical than the average parent coming in to see about MA classes
    for their kids. But maybe they just want to use the $29 trial to establish
    a relationship and get in the habit of going there (I know that is the case,
    the question is: once you do sign up, is the teaching going to be high
    quality and for real MA, or is it just a bunch of mumbo jumbo dressed as MA?

    If anyone wants to go have a look and give an opinion, that'd be great.

    Here are the web addresses they use:

    http://www.martialartswa.com/
    http://www.kungfutemple.com/
    http://www.trymartialartsnow.com/

    Here's their FAQ:
    http://www.martialartswa.com/faq.html

    I think we spoke with Michael Babcock.
    He said Kids call him Mr. B, and IIRC, he introduced himself as Mike.
    (My memory for names sucks really bad).

    He said the Grand Master in their lineage is a 70 year old guy (Master Simon).
    I think Master Robert Jones is the guy the teacher told us is the main guy
    in charge of the 3 schools in our area Next time have to write all of this stuff
    down... but I'm not sure how it would go over to be taking copious notes and
    asking a written list of questions whenever we go check out a school. Then again,
    I'm the one who's gonna spend money, so maybe I should take a "Who cares what
    they think" attitude.

    With the family discounts, the rates look like about $80 to $100 per month (per student)
    if two of my kids and I do it. With no test fees, it's not bad.

    At first, the kids would likely start in a kids' class, and possibly move into an adult
    class sometime in the future. He said they like to have people of varying but similar
    size and ability in classes so that students can partner up with a variety of training
    partner/opponents to get diversity of training.
    He thought my daughter (15, but small) might be ready now. He thought my son
    (13, and also sorta small) would be best to start in the kid class. Of the two, I think
    my son would be ready for adult classes first because he is motivated and dedicated -
    we have to stop him from practicing sometimes. He really wants to learn... but he's a kid,
    and as with any kid, enthusiasm might wane after awhile. If I'm doing it with him, he will
    stay motivated though. Right now, he is ready every MA book he can get his hands on.
    We are members in 3 county libraries, so it's a lot of reading.

    They do seem serious about teaching god quality Martial Arts - but their
    business methods have the look and feel of a McDojo.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011

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