Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Lutang, Mar 13, 2007.
Can anyone tell me more about the "Ilustrisimo Fued?"
feud? hmn! is there one?
What a pity that you feel the need to publically ask a question like this while hiding behind the mask of a pseudonym. Especially as your question lacks the clarity of 'who' is supposed to be feuding!
This is mere speculation, or an insider trying to stir trouble among the seniors of the art. Either way, I do not believe that there is any so-called "Feud." I have regular contact with Grandmaster Yuli Romo, Master Rey Galang and Master Topher Ricketts. I know that they all communicate freely and are very supportive of eachother. While I have not met Grandmaster Tony Diego (the legal heir to the system), I do know that Master Rey regularly meets him in Manilia and that he has telephone contact with Grandmaster Yuli and Master Topher. This was confirmed by GM Yuli as recently as 5 days ago.
So a feud??? NO...I don't think so. What you have is four very skilled and senior students of Grandmaster Ilustrisimo, each teaching the art slightly differently. For clarity, GM Tony Diego teaches Kalis Ilustrisimo, GM Yuli Romo teaches Bahad Zu'Bu (Mang'Taas Baraw Era) which is a fusion of Kali Ilustrisimo, Romo Arnis and the Repikada-Pigada system of Soferino Borinaga (GM Yuli is the heir to the Romo and Borinaga systems , as well as being the second most senior student of Tatang). Master Rey Galang teaches Bakbakan Kali Ilustrisimo, which is a highly structured system and which also incorporates the knife system of Tatang Ilustrisimo. Master Topher Ricketts promotes Kali Ilustrisimo, as taught to him by Tatang. Master Topher is considered to be the major archivist for the Kali Ilustrisimo system. The Ilustrisimo system was also promoted via the Lameco system of the late PG Edgar Sulite.
I hope that this gives some clarification of the situation.
I don't think it's wrong to ask this question as it is an honest one? To be honest with you I only asked this question as I remember it being mentioned in another post on the form and as far as clarity goes, that was all that was mentioned. So if you are questioning my clarity there is nothing to question.
I have met Tony Diego and he seemed to be a vary welcoming and, humble dividual who did not have anything but positive things to say. I have also met Norman Suanico another former student of Tatang. Both indiviuals were very nice and accomodating people, similar to what I have heard of Rey Galanag, Topher Ricketts and Yuli Romo, therefore my experice with individuals associated with Tatang's Art has been nothing but positive. So I was perplexed to see such a comment on here.
So it was just a honest question, don't get so worked up over it! Maybe it makes you feel better to shoot down a person's simple question and you feel the need to let everyone know whom you have met, are in contact with and how much you know about the Ilustrisimo System, but It's not the end of the world and there is life outside of martial arts. So, you need to relax.
Thanks for your reply. Rest assured that I most certainly am in no way 'worked up' over this. That is your perspective and not mine! You will note that I did sign off 'Gumagalang' (Respectfully) which I would not do if I were worked up at all. :woo: :woo: :woo:
If you read my reply more carefully, you will see that it clarifies that, to my knowledge ALL of the most senior masters of Kali Ilustrisimo are openly communicating and that there is NOT a so-called feud. My answer addresses it from two positions. Firstly, assuming that you are not an insider, it gives you insights into a perspective that you may not have. Secondly, if you are an insider, then rest assured that the most senior masters are all fine with eachother, so any perspective of a feud comes from lower down the ranks.
If your question is an open and honest one, then you have no need to feel offended by my reply. I am merely clarifying a situation. On a personal note, I have never seen the point of using pseudonyms. Too many people hide behind them in an attempt to express a political aspiration or simply to stir trouble. Again, this is not a personal attack on you. I just don't see the point of living or hiding behind a different name...in other words, if I need to use a pseudonym, then I am only cheating myself and my own identity / values.
I am still me and have not changed my login, in case any one wants it clairified
The tongue can be sharper than the sword
I find this frustrating when questions are asked concerning disagreements and feuds in a public forum in which in my opinion should be kept informative and positive to promote FMA. The people who trained with Tatang I am sure have their own reflective expression on what they have learned and are now teaching, as you can see from Kalis Ilustrisimo to Kali Bakbakan. I did not find your question honest as to first what is its relevance and what's your point. Also, what would you have actually gained if someone was to reply a full blown account of whatever feud you have been made aware of. Maybe you are best contacting the original source. I have trained with Tony Diego and for what its worth there was no mention of any feud. There are many out there who are proficient in Ilustrisimo and even if there are issues leave it to them to sort it out. It is our responsibility to up hold what we are taught and apply it in the best way we can.
So maybe its a case of not focusing on what colour you should paint the lifeboat when there is a gap in the hub. (meaning curiousity of feuding will not improve your ability)
Maybe we just need to continue what is relevant to keep developing our knowledge and skills.
To suppress a truth will give it force beyond endurance
Ha Ha Ha
We all know who you are Gary. You are BGile the Troll.
This post is what I was thinking about, even prior to it being posted the timing was off by minutes.
Lutang and yourself being low in count, and this being sort of a troll posting in regards to the question of Lutang.
But I would like to confirm his statement and his right to ask a question, and it is another's right to wonder why the question is being asked.
Generally it takes about 3 or 4 post's to make it clear where the original remarks are heading. I find it strange we all enjoy reading and if there is a problem in an organization that some have money in (Dow Jones and wall street) to be able to get the information and very quickly to be able to make decisions.
Yet if some of the organizations are turbulant and having a problem that might be something good to know, now it is almost suppressed. IMHO that is as wrong as anyone trying to troll. So if a legit-question is asked on a forum, it is only right it should be addressed. Other wise it is not honest. No question is a wrong one, it is the one who does not ask that is making the mistake in the school of thought I come from.
Honesty is a huge item that is violated daily IMHO...For whatever reason. If a child is not taught honesty by being honest, how else is it (honesty) taught???
What cracks me up is when someone asks the question and it is then answered by, "I'll e-mail you"! Wow, now the antenna is up big time.
Some forums will allow the conversation and then delete it all, where other forums will delete some and not other. Then some will ban the asker
Very complicated if they are controversial questions and answers and no one but the person who might be suspect is allowed to have their say...Not that it is what is happening here, but it does make the antenna go up like I mentioned...
Are you suggesting members with low posts are only here to troll and are using multiple accounts? Take a look at aiodan7s join date in comparison to his post count. Now take a look at your's and have a read of the wiki defintion of a troll below. Spot anything?
I've been signed up here since 04 and have only posted a handful of times, mainly because i (like others I would imagine) generally dont post unless i've something of substance to add to the topic.
So while we're on about trolls. heres wikis defintion of a troll:
In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.
Strangely enough you've posted a reply in this thread that both was inflammatory and off topic. Funny that, eh?
Gary...stop trolling my friend. Your last post has absolutely nothing to do with the Kali Ilustrisimo system, or any alleged feud.
Your articulation never ceases to amaze me. You definitely have a tongue that would clip a hedge.
Keep swingin and slicin
I have just noticed that you have edited this from your earlier post to which I have replied.
1. If your question was open and honest, you would not need to hide behind a pseudonym. That said, you may well give an indication of your own identity without realising it. :woo:
2. I have already told you that I AM NOT WORKED UP!
3. What makes you feel so insecure as to consider that I was trying to shoot you down?
4. You tried to allege a feud, and I told you that, to my knowledge and contact with three seniors, I am not aware of a feud. This is FACT and is in no way trying to impress anyone. Thankfully, I lost that part of my ego many years ago.
5. While your immature rantings are amusing, they are certainly not causing any tension from my side. I do have a life outside of martial arts, BUT martial arts have been a big part of my life for over three decades. It appears that you have not yet reached an understanding of the intrinsic benefits of martial arts, such as honesty, loyalty, knowledge, justice and respect.
I've spent enough time on your trivia. Got to go and relax now.
I have also posted that Wiki item but when I do it, I post the whole article not just what you want to believe.
I actually believe I posted something that was worthwhile
So again we seem to be at odds
Well Peter again I am under the impression what I posted has some merit.
Sorry if you think that was a troll post
I believe the things I posted were relevent, Oh Well.
A portion that suits my thoughts this time, and not the whole item.
Wiki on troll,
Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, more often than not based on what they thought was said rather than what was actually said by the other person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others. The key element under attack by a troll is the forum or group's hegemony. Hegemony refers to the recognized and agreed upon power structure of the said group or community. To this extent, a troll does not necessarily have to make malicious or incorrect comments. For example, a person with political point of view A who approaches a forum frequented by people with political point of view B, may be considered a troll, even if no lies or attacks are made.
A person who retaliates (using whatever means) as a result of a misunderstanding (or as a way of rebelling against the overzealous application of rules) is not a troll. A troll is a person who approaches a board with the specific intention of stirring things up, either with no particular motive or provocation in mind, other than to be purely destructive or if the motive or provocation is against the ethos of the board. For example, a neo-nazi approaching a Jewish forum with the intention of attacking the members, purely because the neo-nazi knows the forum to contain Jewish members, may be considered a troll. A Jewish member of the said forum, who becomes angry with the neo-nazi and breaks the rules in gaining revenge against the neo-nazi, and who is subsequently banned and who then begins to rebel, is not a troll.
The general element, that determines whether a malicious user is a troll or not, is the level of indignant emotions present in the person, coupled with the person's history with the forum or group. An indignant user who has had a previous normal relationship with the group is not a troll, even if the user uses methods of attack that are characteristic of a troll attack.
The term Troll is often used as an insult in online communications, resulting in it being largely misapplied.
Ha Ha Ha Nice try Gary, but this still has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic of the Ilustrisimo system and / or any so-called feud.
Separate names with a comma.