I say again, MMA is not JKD

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by American MMA, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    SBGi = JKD org that train with the arts that are most proven in their respective ranges, much like mma but without the emphasis on ring or street... because ring or street is BS.

    OJKD can suck a wang chun
     
  2. Sekkendo

    Sekkendo Banned Banned

    to answer your question, i trained under 8 original students of bruce lee, and i practice backyard JKD

    okay, first of all, jeet kune do is bruce lee's martial art; jeet kune do has a technical structure, which is the base system of bruce lee's martial art; jeet kune do's structure embodies all of bruce lee's concepts, principles and philosophy; you can apply jkd's philosophy to other martial arts, but then again, that philosophy is pretty much already there in a lot of other martial arts, so what are you really applying? nothing, that's not JKD, you're just fooling yourself; bruce lee actually got his philosophy from a lot of other martial arts, so don't be fooled by that approach when people tell you they apply JKD's philosophy to other martial arts; that doesn't make it JKD

    okay, second of all, if you do not have that technical structure, the base system of jeet kune do, then you do not practice jeet kune do; it's that simple; a lot of people try to slide by, you know, by saying that they practice jeet kune do concepts, or jkd philosophy, or that they learned jeet kune do from a book like 'tao of jeet kune do' so now they can claim to be a part of the jkd lineage; whoever says that is an idiot, point blank, period; you cannot have jeet kune do concepts without jeet kune do structure, that is the bottom line; the only person who teaches JKDC is dan inosanto, and he will not teach you JKDC unless you already have OJKD's structure; you cannot learn JKD from a book, video, or anything like that; you have to have the JKD structure; too often people claim that JKD has no structure; don't be fooled by those idiots, JKD has a definate structure madeup of primarily wingchun and boxing with fencing principles; bruce lee said it, dan inosanto said it, ted wong said it, they all said it; if you are saying something different from what they are all saying, then you do not know; i feel bad for dan inosanto and the JKDC guys because a lot of people just wanted that peice of paper so they could claim to practice jeet kune do; more than half of them, since they left dan's school, no longer practice JKD, but yet for some reason they're still calling it that, and using that peice of paper that dan gave them as their credibility

    claiming to have learned jeet kune do from a book like 'tao of jeet kune do' does not give you credible lineage; that would be like me reading a book on kenpo karate and then claiming to be a student of ed parker; also, you cannot practice JKDC without the original structure; that would be like practicing Judo and calling it Muaythai concepts, which is just as ridiculous as practicing MMA and calling it JKDC; this is exactly how you can tell none of these guys on MAP are actually trained in jeet kune do; they don't have a clue as to what JKD is, even at the most basic level

    where it gets confusing at is the term 'style' when people hear that jeet kune do has no style; using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation; keep in mind that back in bruce lee's lifetime, the word 'style' had a very different connotation; very few people were training with sparring gear and protective padding like bruce lee was doing; a lot of people at that time period were doing point sparring, in which you don't actually hit your opponents, but are given points based on what looked good at the time; also, martial arts at that time was still very traditional, and a lot of styles practiced katas or kuens, or forms as you might call them today; JKD does not have katas, or kuens, or forms; it was very untraditional for its time period, and the training was very similar to western boxing; it was an intense physical workout; JKD is not a closed system, it is an open system that allows for progression in different areas; but there is a definate structure, and JKD's philosophy is very well exemplified within that structure; every movement in JKD embodies the principles and concepts of 'tao of jeet kune do', but you have to learn that structure before you can call it JKD, or before you can claim to have any sort of JKD lineage; if you don't know, now you know

    also, third of all, jeet kune do is not the same thing as jun fan gung fu, they actually have a very noticeably different structure; what taky kimura teaches is jun fan gung fu; what dan inosanto and ted wong teaches is jeet kune do, it's that simple; anyone who claims they are the same style obviously hasn't got a clue; anyone who claims that the name and lineage doesn't matter, hasn't got a clue; the only reason these idiots on MAP are saying that is because they don't understand JKD, they don't practice JKD, and they do not belong to the one true lineage, therefore they are trying to do everything in their power to discredit that lineage so that they can claim authority on jeet kune do; don't be fooled by their lack of knowledge; JKD is a martial art, it has a structure, it has a lineage, and anyone who says otherwise is a complete and total idiot; dan inosanto also teaches jun fan gung fu, by the way

    soon, they will say that nobody disagrees and that i am just preaching to the choir, but the fact is that they are all fooling themselves and trying to fool others as well; as soon as someone shows them where they are wrong, they will turn around and say 'i told you so' because they do not want to accept the fact that they are wrong; they don't want to accept the fact that they have no lineage, and that they have no authority on jeet kune do; they don't want to admit that, so they will instead try to argue and do whatever they can to discredit those who have the authority, who know what they're talking about, and whoever refuses to jump on their bandwagon is immediately flushed out before they have a chance

    the core of jeet kune do is wing chun; bruce lee said that, and so did dan inosanto himself; anyone who disagrees with that is a fool; jeet kune do also borrows many elements from western boxing, but do not get sucked into the unknown by listening to what people say; jeet kune do is not western boxing, nor is their structure even the same; JKD has its own structure, which is in many ways very different from western boxing; the 'original poster' is actually correct in saying that JKD is not MMA; the footwork in boxing is different from jeet kune do; the straight lead punch is different, the principles behind the methods are different, so it is not like JKD copied anything from western boxing; JKD also borrows a lot of principles from epee fencing, but if you look at any JKD practitioner, you will not see them sparring with foil swords and screaming 'unguarde' because there is a big difference between JKD and fencing; JKD incorporates the concept of interception, and in many ways, you could say that the JKD straight lead punch comes from epee fencing, even though fencing practitioners do not punch or kick; so you have to understand JKD's structure before you can understand JKD, because if you go off listening to what these other guys are saying, you will find yourself being misled in conforming to their misconceptions

    with that said, jeet kune do is a work in process; it always has been, and in many ways the original structure is meant to be discarded; however, you cannot build a roof on a house until you lay down the foundation, and the JKD structure is our foundation; like i said before, dan inosanto will not teach you JKDC until you have that foundation; ted wong, all he taught and focussed on was that foundation; JKD's structure is so important that it is one of the ways in which we find out who knows their stuff, and who is really just jumping on the bandwagon; what are some good ways to improve upon JKD's foundation? bruce lee and dan inosanto were very fond of eskrima, which they found out has many principles that are already embodied within jeet kune do, that's why a lot of JKD instructors also teach eskrima as a secondary martial arts class; eskrima is not JKD, but it has the five ways of attack, which are already embodied in jeet kune do, that is why dan inosanto teaches eskrima to his JKDC practitioners; you could probably also learn more from wingchun, western boxing, jujutsu and muaythai, but for me i believe the buck stops there; JKD is not a framework in which to add 50, 32, or 26 martial arts; it is not the same thing as mixed martial arts, and in order to understand what JKD really is, you have to know the foundation; not every martial art blends well with jeet kune do, so in order to find out what works, you have to learn the JKD structure; that is the bottom line

    finally, to answer your question, it's actually quite basic; bruce lee was just hitting the bag; he wasn't practicing boxing, or wing chun, or muay thai, or sikaran, or anything like that; he was just hitting the bag, doing what comes natural to him; if anything he was practicing jeet kune do; JKD is a work in process; to me, it looks like he was just getting the feel for it, doing whatever he felt came natural to him; by the way, that's not a light bag, that was a pretty heavy bag, and he seemed to be knocking it around without much effort; bruce lee's feats are already common knowledge to just about everyone, so it doesn't need to be mentioned that he had some very powerful punches; also, i think someone already mentioned that bruce lee learned a lot from western boxing, and someone also said that boxers learned a lot from bruce lee; someone mentioned sugar ray, for instance; but you have to understand, bruce lee wasn't a boxer, and he certainly didn't practice boxing; bruce lee practiced jeet kune do
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  3. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    This sounds like a cult
     
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    That's amazing, you made a wall of text and didn't answer the question. He was just asking basically why Bruce Lee was punching the bag the way he was, has his hands low, swinging a bit wildly at the bag.... Things like that.
     
  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    You missed out on the last paragraph in your long quote


     
  6. Sekkendo

    Sekkendo Banned Banned

    in his defense, he quoted me before i edited my post

    but that's what i'm trying to say; people on this forum don't even give you a chance to speak, they just jump on the bandwagon; if you aren't for them and what they do, they will shut you out and try to silence you and make you look bad before you even have a chance man; watch out for this community, seriously; don't let these fools snare you into their trap, some of them have even openly admitted in this thread that they just get a kick out of it; it makes them laugh; they don't practice JKD, so don't let their questions and words fool you; notice all of the questions that have been asked towards them, and nobody has even made an attempt to come up with an answer, the topic has always been redirected in other directions; in many ways it's clever, but in many ways it's foolish

    and don't be fooled by people like myself, either; you never know who might be surfing this forum, disguising themselves as a wolf in sheep's clothing; it's easier to come in as a student who doesn't know anything, than it is to come in as somebody who knows it all; it's just easier to stay out of the spotlight that way; people tend to pay more attention to those who claim to be certified instructors, and ask a lot of questions; when you present yourself as a student, you tend to slide past the political radar much easier, and people don't expect as much from you
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I didn't remove anything, he wrote that afterwards, notice the "edited on..." watermark. :p
     
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Ah bad timing then...


    This is just confusing me.
     
  9. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Either way, basically just saying "He was just moving freely on the bag" is another cop out.
    When you move freely on the bag, doing what comes natural, you're displaying the end result of your training. What shows is the sum of what you've practiced. There are very particular things that he's doing that would make one question his experience, especially if that's what comes natural at that point in his training.
    He still failed to answer what the functional differences between boxing and that video's mechanics are and why they appear, which was the question.
     
  10. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    look all in all, as much fun as im getting out of this thread, isn't there something in the MAP TOCs against multiple IDs?
     
  11. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Sekkendo, these are people from different styles, different groups, different methodologies who all are disagreeing with you.
    When many unrelated people all agree that you are wrong, that's not a bandwagon. That's a consensus. It should be considered seriously, not wholesale dismissed by trying to paint whole groups of unrelated people as some secret united society of martial arts forum villains.
     
  12. Sekkendo

    Sekkendo Banned Banned

    the problem is that you're looking for something that isn't there; all along, you guys have been looking for something that isn't there
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  13. Sekkendo

    Sekkendo Banned Banned

    and yes, i just called your whole consensus a bunch of fools
     
  14. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Really dude, you'd do better just calling us commies. That's the "in" thing at the moment. Here in the States anyway. Elections coming up and all that.

    Why not actually address the points and questions presented? If you don't want to engage in discussion or debate, why are you continuing to post?
     
  15. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Yes, it's called "knowledge".
     
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I know... I didnt want to say "So your saying he's basically messing about with a punch bag"
     
  17. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    Sekkendo... these guys are reasonable. Occasionally overly harsh but I'd rather they disagree with everything I said so I have to prove what I say than have them bend over and take whatever I said.

    Also I've been following this thread from its inception and I must ask.. how does it smell where the sun don't shine.
     
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You made a typo there MB
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You don't need anyone's help to look bad - you are a sock puppet; an empty bell making a lot of noise. Saying lots, meaning little.

    Frankly I pity you
     
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Being called a fool by someone who is as big a tool as you are is actually a compliment - you just can't see that because your head is up your own ass
     

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