Hwar Do

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by ithacado, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. ithacado

    ithacado New Member

    Greetings and happy new year all. I recently began taking Hwar Do and am thus far really enjoying it.

    Does anyone in the forum have any experience or knowledge of this fairly new discipline / practice / system?

    In surfing around, I came upon a few forums in which a small handful of users were denouncing its legitimacy.

    We have two black belts in our class, and while new to it, anyone can plainly see they are legit!

    Thank you in advance for any additional insights.
     
  2. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Welcome to MAP.

    Having skilled exponents within a system doesn't automatically mean the background of the system is legit or even that they are all they say.

    You could have a very skilled Karateka but if they are claiming to teach some ancient system of super Korean Ninja then there's something amiss.

    If you have doubts about what you are doing then I think you have done the right thing in trying to explore things.
     
  3. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Welcome to the forum!

    I've never heard of Hwar Do, I'm assuming it's a Korean system?

    Incidentally, looking good to beginners doesn't necessarily mean that the system is legitimate or effective. In fact, sometimes the most flashy and impressive looking techniques are actually not necessarily the most effective on offer.

    Still, as long as you're enjoying it and are doing it for the right reasons, carry on training and enjoy yourself!
     
  4. ithacado

    ithacado New Member

    Thank you all for your quick responses. Yes, it has Korean roots but integrates other systems as well. The website, http://grandmasterhykwon.com/, if you are interested. Believe it is very regional, primarily in the D.C. area as that is where the first grandmaster and founder is located.
     
  5. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I haven't noticed any info about the background of the system or founder?

    It's all very well saying it is an integration of x,y and z systems but they need to provide the background of the founder in those systems.

    For example it mentions Jujutsu, Judo and weapons so what of the founder's background in those areas?
     
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You read my mind Dean

    "Kung fu" especially is problematic because of the massive stylistic differences. The art reads like an "all things to all men" pitch, which tend to make me suspicious
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Are you in the DC area then?

    I am and haven't heard of this school. That said, it's not really my cup of tea anymore, so it's unlikely I would have.

    I agree with the OP that, based on the videos, the guys know what they're doing. Again, not my cup of tea and I don't find it especially compelling. But I practiced taekwondo long enough to know that they're doing what they're doing quite well, even if I don't subscribe to what they're doing.

    I ask whether you're in the DC area because what they're doing isn't so terribly different from what you'd find at many decent Korean-based schools. So if you're NOT local but you DO like what you're seeing in these vids, don't despair if you can't find that precise style in your area. As far as I can tell, it's just them putting a personal stamp on the particular way they've chosen to organize their experiences and training approach.

    Does that make sense?
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Almighty Thor on a bicycle!!! The women's video was horrible!! Some of the most potentially dangerous defences I have seen

    Most of the footage just says "Taekwondo" - there is little else on display. This is not a bad thing as such, which makes the "20 arts in 1 approach" even stranger

    Edit: the men video was considerably better. It's still just TKD with a few bolt ons, but the men seem to get better training than the women do for some reason
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  10. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I disagree AP. They may know what they are doing on the TKD-ish side of things but some of that weapon work look er odd lets say.

    Edit: Dam I've just watched that women's clip!! :bang:

    Not to mention the "jujutsu" side of things seemed poor, no real structure or proper use of the lower body and such.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  11. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Ask a) yourself then b) your instructors and black belts these questions:-

    1)What aspects of Jujutsu, Judo and weapons are combined?
    2)Why are these aspects useful to combine?
    3)How do these aspects combine?

    If the response to b) is positive, delivered convincingly and reasonably clearly/coherently
    then ask yourself again

    a)->1),2),3)

    Do the bulk of the responses make sense now?

    If not I would walk - but thats just me. I have seen a fair bit of Baloney-Fu around.

    Im all for cross-training, but folk need to know what they are doing and not just making JuJitsu soup for the sake of marketing, money, ego etc.
     
  12. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    To be honest to my uneducated eyes even the kicking and such looked poor. Body structure and the mechanics seemed off.

    Although that woman in the little black dress was impressive in how she maintained her dignity. :D
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The TKD side of things looked OK

    The Ju Jitsu was....well pretty bad.
    The weapon work...horrible
    The conditioning...."interesting" shall we say

    It doesn't look like a "bad" school per se (whatever that means) and I am sure the intentions are honourable (addressing limitations of one approach etc) but they have ended up with a bit of a dogs dinner and the stuff they do badly detracts heavily from the stuff they do well
     
  14. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Yeah , like a lot of these kind of schools they seem to be focusing on flash over solid techniques.
    On the plus side they seem pretty athletic and train hard.
     
  15. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Looks like I missed some videos then. I saw neither women nor weapons. But my point that, IF this appeals to him, he could be content with a well-run taekwondo school, stands. Not necessarily THIS school. I'm unclear he's in this area anyway.
     
  16. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Hi.Welcome to MAP.I too am located in "The Heart of the Beautiful Finger Lakes Region".

    I doubt he would remember me as we haven't spoken in some years but I've met John on three different occasions plus the initial phone call I made to him back in the 90s when he first started advertising after opening his first training hall. Even took me in and showed it to me.Nice guy.

    Hwar Do is a hybrid system which seems to be primarily a Tae Kwon Do base with elements and weaponry from other systems grafted on. I cannot speak as to how good/bad this synthesis is put together as I have only seen about 15 minutes of HD in action at a demo at the Ithaca Festival at least 10 years ago and at that point in the demo they were doing Okinawan type weaponry forms.

    Last I knew there were no claims that HD was some 1,000 year old system or such nonsense so as long as this is still the case and it's still acknowledged that it is a modern hybrid system then it is legit as far as that goes. If the question is is it legit as to how good a system it is in actual function I can't say as I have never sparred or crossed hands with a HD practitioner nor seen them in action other than those weaponry solo forms. This is not saying it's not a viable system,I just can't make such a pronouncement either way. I don't see why it wouldn't be as long as the components selected to create it mesh well together and don't contradict each other.

    I did drop in on the school on the Commons some years ago while inquiring about rental space for another teacher.John was in Elmira that night but the place did look nice and stocked with good equipment (bags and such).

    When his advertising first appeared in the paper I was somewhat skeptical due to the list of systems being taught,seemed way too many ( Karate,Kung Fu,etc,etc,long list) and varied for one school unless there was a cadre of instructors for all those systems.

    As "Kung Fu" was one of the things appearing in the list I called and inquired as to what system of Chinese Boxing was being taught.John was up front and didn't claim to teach an actual Chinese system. He did say his teacher had studied (in John's words) "all the styles" and took the best from each one. I'm sure that was what his teacher told him. As (depending on who and how they are catagorized) pre-Cultural Revolution CMAs consisted of 27 to 32 major types with the individual systems born thereof numbering about as many as there are days in the year it would be simply impossible for anyone to do this,or even get the gist of the 27 to 32 major branches. I didn't mention this while we were talking and the other 2 or 3 times we spoke
    there wasn't any in depth discussion of MAs and I didn't get around to asking what CMAs and what specific parts of them were incorporated into HD.Anyway, at that time at least it would appear that John didn't know much about the history of CMAs or he would have realized the "all the styles" idea is simply impossible. Well,how many people do know much about CMAs except history buffs or CMA folks? So I don't believe John was trying to jive anyone with that claim, he just didn't know the actual breadth of CMAs.

    I have been retired from teaching for over a decade now but I'm a known guy with many of the instructors here(those still living at any rate) from the Baby Boom generation and the previous generation so if you take my word on that I hope you'll believe my objective comments I've made here.I'm also respected amongst "the old guard" in town as an individual who knows a bit about MA history in general and CMA history in particular. Feel free to show this post to John,I doubt there is anything he'd find objectionable.

    And in case you do-Hi,John.Hope things are going well.

    Hope I've answered some of your questions,ithacado,and I hope you stick around here on MAP. Happy New Year!
     
  17. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Great Jiminy Crickets! In the time I wrote my post this thread took off.Only Dean's initial reply was there when I started.

    OK, I can't see the vids on my dial up so I'll have to wait 'til lunchtime when I go back to work but at this time I'll accept the observations of the other "veterans" who have spoken here as correct as none of them are "ax grinding",ithacado.

    It would be helpful to know the founder's instructors in the various systems and what particular lineages they were,something I failed to mention in my post.Sorry 'bout dat.
     
  18. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    http://grandmasterhykwon.com/grandmaster.html

    No grades listed for judo/jujutsu etc. There is an ambiguous mention of "other grades".

    Also:

    "Grandmaster Kwon’s career reached new heights in 1999 when he became the winner of the sparring category for the first-ever Grandmaster’s King of the World Championships.". Anyone heard of that competition?

    And a story about a bad hair day. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  19. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I like the main dude's gold lamé outfit, I gotta find me one of those.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  20. ithacado

    ithacado New Member

    I am not in the D.C. area, thank you for your replies.
     

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