Hung Kuen - General Info Appreciated

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by sn11, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. sn11

    sn11 Woosh! Bang! Ow!

    Hey!

    Theres a "Hung Kuen" class near me that im taking a look at on friday. I know though that there are particular kung fu schools in my area that are less that reputable.

    The site can be found from http://www.loughboroughkungfu.com/?cat=6 (the actual site seems to be down)

    The classes are taught by "Michael Kerslake, a 4th degree black belt instructor."

    Now, although i will look on the net about this style i really don't like doing. Mainly because nothing has to be "proven" on the net. I mean anyone can make a web page, write a bunch of nonsense about something they know nothing about and be readily available to read.

    So any information regarding the style people can inform me of would be greatly recieved. Or links to reputable sources. Also any opinions on the school and/or instructor if you know either.

    From what i gather Hung kuen is based of the movements of the 5 classical Kung Fu animals, dragon, tiger, snake, leopard and the crane. Techniques are also drawn from the 5 classical elements, gold, wood, water, fire and earth.

    Now im not sure what else is involved in Hung Kuen to be honest. I mean there are so many sub categories for arts:

    Kicking Mainly
    Punching Mainly
    Overal Striking
    Overal Grappling
    Both Striking and Grappling
    Weapons based
    Weapons included at higher levels

    And so much more...

    Again, sorry to be such a n00b but i've searched the whole of nottingham for a good kung fu school, and i am starting to think this may be my last chance!
     
  2. beknar

    beknar Valued Member

    Some impressions from the hung gar players I know and have worked out with:

    strong stances: very very solid stancework. If you try to break their stance with the typical bridging at the shins, YOU will probably get broken. So you'll see a lot of static stancework. You'll see dudes dropping in a low horse stance for 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes at a time. If you see that, you'll see very low student attendance as well. No one wants to sit in a riding horse stance for that long.
    creative footwork: from the strong stances, you'll see varied and creative footwork. So you'll see guys doing angle stepping drills over and over and over and over and over and over again. You'll see guys doing cross-step drills over and over and over and over again.
    power generation through the waist, hips and stance transitions: powerful strikes, so you'll see guys doing the motions in the air for hundreds of repetitions, then you'll see them do it in the punching bag to test the power, then on focus mitts for accuracy.
    conditioning: hard forearms, stomach, chest, shoulders, back, neck, every area where you are likely to be hit and hit with (other than the face) is conditioned. Again, you'll see low student turnout if this is enforced.
    San Sau: two person application drills. we see the kinesthetic theory applied here, by having students actually feel the techniques at work, where they see how to actually strike at a person with them and how to divert them. This is fairly critical.
    the pillar forms: starting with gung gee **** kuen, you start to put together in patterns, combinations, strategies. If they don't have the pillar forms, the training may be useful, but it isn't hung kuen.
    sparring: I cannot overstate the importance of sparring.

    Some people have gotten the impression that hung-kuen is more 'forced', but the techniques are always applied in a relaxed way, and driven by the body, even if the angles themselves are sharper than one usually sees from other external arts.

    Anyway, we have plenty of guys who practice hung-gar/hung-kuen here, so they can give you a much better and informed impression.
     
  3. Angelus

    Angelus Waiting for summer :D

    Expect plenty of grueling stancework. If it doesn't hurt, or your legs don't start shaking while youre in your stance, your'e not doing it right :D
    HK is a southern fist style so expect a lot of forearm conditioning. Its a style that requires the practitioner to have strong rooted stances. At the same time you must be able to move fluidly from one stance to another. HK is a very solid and powerful style. When you start doing the moves, you will see that almost all the attacks use the whole body - making the attacks very powerful (and at first, very tiring :D)

    I have never seen a version of HK that focuses more on kicking. HK practitioners use legs more for power and movement, and most kicks are short and low.
     
  4. Dragon Brush

    Dragon Brush Valued Member

    Wow, Bekar, I think that pretty much sums it up.

    I'd also like to add that the technique will most likely be VERY picky. I went into Hung Kuen from Tae Kwon Do, and the sudden and brutal emphasis on perfect technique was staggering.

    And there is weapons work at more advanced levels.

    And just to emphasize what has been said about the stancework: if you think you know what a horse stance is now, prepare to be born again. ;)
     
  5. beknar

    beknar Valued Member

    Just once I'd like to type f o o k without it being starred out ;P
     
  6. sn11

    sn11 Woosh! Bang! Ow!

    WOW!

    Im really not 100% what to expect from it now lol.

    It sounds like one brutal KF! :p

    What application would you guys say it has most relevance toward?

    I.E - Self Defence, Fitness, Competition or any others you can think of?
     
  7. Banditshaw

    Banditshaw El Bandido

    Hung Kuen is known as the ''Southern Fist''.
    Hung Kuen builds the ''Gung Fu Body'' through rigorous tortuous repetitions that will bore you to death but make you a stronger fighter in the long run. If you stick around long enough under good instruction and with massive amounts of sparring you will be competent enough to hold your own.
    Mostly what has been said already is true when it comes to Hung. Hard punches, claws to the face, elbows, forearms hard as a rock, low snapping kicks and one thing that is overlooked, swift footwork. One of the misconceptions about Hung is the static stances. In fact, the stepping methods that Beknar mentioned is spot on when it comes to training the legs.The four main stances being the Horse, Cat, Scissor, and Bow. Iron broom training, Sam Sing, Wooden Dummy and Hard Chi Gong are some of it's conditioning methods.
    There is also a soft side which lends itself well keeping your body a relaxed but strong force.
    One of the sayings for the style is ''Hard as Iron, Soft as Thread.

    I would check out this site and navigate through the various portals to get an idea of the style and it's methods.
    http://www.hungkuen.net/training.htm
     
  8. Banditshaw

    Banditshaw El Bandido


    There are no belts in Hung Kuen. Just the belt to hold up your pants. :D

    The belt thing is a fairly modern invention to show status to the public.

    Just ask him if they teach Gung Gee F00k Fu and also if they spar.
     
  9. sn11

    sn11 Woosh! Bang! Ow!


    Would it be good if the answers are yes? :p

    Oh and not trying to sound too n00bish here, but would this stuff benefit in anyway doing the kind of things team ryouko do?

    Sort of free running, tricking style thing?

    I mean i understand that wushu would be the best option to help with it but i'm trying to look at a broader scope.
     
  10. hungkuen

    hungkuen Valued Member

    Looking further, I see that this class is an offshoot of Sifu Ang Kee Kong's Hung Kuen class and Sifu Ang doesn't have quite a good reputation in the Hung Kuen circles. It depends how much emphasis you want to put on the HK lineage.

    Don't know what team ryouko do is? Care to elaborate?

    Hung Kuen is not fancy or tricky, just effective. Like most Chinese Martial arts, the goal is to end the fight as quickly as possible. There's no time for dancing around and fancy prancing. If you want that, look up your local wushu club.

    Like most posters here say, take a first class and see if you like it. If they have real sparring, students seem to know what they're doing, and applying the techniques, then you may have found a good school.
     
  11. sn11

    sn11 Woosh! Bang! Ow!

    Team ryouko are martial artists who also do tricking. Its something i've recently gotten into and have a big interest in.

    Its not so much i want the school to be directly involved but building stamina and strength etc would be nice.

    I have heard bad things about the Sifu Ang schools, my other alternatives from what i know is a place called nottinghamwutan and a lau gar class, although its quite a distance and the closer one i didn't enjoy.

    Hmm :D
     
  12. Su lin

    Su lin Gone away

    Uh ohhhhhh!Not Master Ang!

    Seriously,like most people I haven't heard good things at all.
     
  13. sn11

    sn11 Woosh! Bang! Ow!

    I'm starting to believe its impossible to find a good kung fu place in nottingham....


    I wonder about surrounding areas? any ideas?
     
  14. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.


    I agree with everything that was mentioned regarding HK (which was well-written! :) ), except for the quote above :Angel:

    Just as there are different versions of CLF (e.g. Hung Sing, Buk Sing, etc.), there are also various versions of HK. Although the most popular version of HK is perhaps that of the Lam Sai Wing lineage, there are other types of HK that don't practice the pillar forms at all.

    The other non-LSW HK out there are generically referred to as "village" HK. They're lesser known versions spread throughout various areas of China & Taiwan that have some connection to Hung Hei Goon, be it via Wong Fei Hung or other legitimate Sifu from other lines.

    Therefore, just because a Sifu teaches a system of HK that does not include the popularly known "pillar forms", it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not HK. In fact, it's even possible that that version could be closer to the original HK, since Fu Hok, Ng Ying/Ng Hang, etc. are relatively modern. They may also have their own "pillar forms" that don't necessarily resemble Gung Ji, Fu Hok, Ng Ying/Ng Hang & Tid Sin.

    Although I happen to practice LSW-HK, I've experienced a little village HK and realize that LSW-HK is not the only Hung Gar out there. From what little I've seen, they have similar characteristics and techniques, all southern in derivation. It's all HK; it's all good, just as long as the Sifus are legitimate, that is ;)

    Also, regarding your question about HK training to help with your tricking...

    Like any other physical endeavour, you should derive some benefit(s) to help you in other activities, generally speaking. I'm familiar with Team Ryouko & what they do (they're superb athletes and great at what they do). However, echoing what hungkuen had advised earlier, you'd be better off learning Wu Shu, and/or Capoeira, gymnastics, breakdancing to improve your tricking, if you're looking to develop skills similar to those of Team Ryouko's.

    Perhaps you've visited it already, but have you checked-out this club in the Nottingham area? This being a Wu Shu club, you would be exposed to some acrobatic training:

    http://www.wushunottingham.co.uk/

    Cheers :)
     
  15. beknar

    beknar Valued Member

    I had not even considered that! Like many people, I only know the things directly in front of me. :(

    Tell me though, even without the pillar forms, are they still very much like the hung gar you know?
     
  16. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Not necessarily. The other Hung that Kwong, Wing-lam teaches is generally high stanced,and uses a pigeon toed stance like slant style WC a lot .I have two books about it -(not by Kwong)- I got back in the late 70s early 80s, and a friend of mine who had learned some of it-(don't remember where now, somewhere here in the eastern US)- performed some of the sets for me one time.Looks like an animal system, but you wouldn't presume it was a Hung system.Very different to the eye.

    And then there's the Hung derivative types, like the Hung Chia which uses a Cross Tiger Fist which sure ain't Gung Gee! Or the system I studied before FHHG, Nine Stances, Seven Kicks,which was every bit as grueling,and quite recognizable as a Hung variety, but had a slight northern influence in some techniques introduced somewhere in its development,

    The Wong,Fei-hung line, the Fu Hok line, is the most common, with slight variations among his disciples, but tho' say Lam and Tang Fung's stuff look and are performed with somewhat different flavors, it's pretty obvious they're not very far apart.As Juego stated, Lam's is the most common, tho' Frankie Yee's line has been really propogating Tang Fung's lineage here in the NE over the last 3 decades or so.

    So bek, I guess it would be, if they don't do the pillar forms, they're not a Fu Hok school.Now you know why I usually make the FH designation, rather than just calling it Hung.

    And try spelling the whole name for Gung Gee with a "u" between the two consonants in the third word.Maybe the mods'll allow that!
     
  17. sn11

    sn11 Woosh! Bang! Ow!

    Quick post while im at college, as i can't really read the posts much at the minute.

    http://www.wushunottingham.co.uk just wondering what you guys think to this place? ever heard of the guy? etc

    thanks for the help
     
  18. Su lin

    Su lin Gone away

    Havent you already posted that link Psym0n?
     
  19. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

  20. Su lin

    Su lin Gone away

    This is a Hung Kuen discussion that you started Psym0n,please carry the Wushu debate where you started it.
     

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