Hung Gar

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by BklynJames, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    Ahhhh, my tweak is slightly different than yours��... Like learn the steps and fix the screwups, I noticed how easy it was when you especially dont know what the steps do..
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
  2. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    So fifth class and second forms class last night. Im about 30 moves into the first form, Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen. I tell you I feel it all this morning. We spent just about two hours on it. Just tweaking what I knew and the new stuff I learned last night. Im liking the form as its totally different than what I'm use to when it comes to the usual forms I have learned thru my life. They were all japanese karate based forms.
  3. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    So I'm a month in and I'm really liking it. I'm more than halfway thru gung gee. I'm figuring I should have the moves within two weeks. Then I can start learning it. The conditioning is brutal but luv it
  4. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Yes make sure you don't rush things by thinking learning the routines themselves is the end game. It's only the rough sketch of what you can learn. You are learning basic, grosser movements that should be if you stick with it, complemented in later far more difficult fist sets with fine tuning and most especially the entire transition from the sets to unscripted and improvisational practice. I was always told the little details are most important for advancing to the greatest levels. I think anybody could probably learn the gross movements for a long set with enough practice, and I did try counting once and came up with over 200 individual 'instructions' for the full Gung Gi Fook Fu, including both the basic positions but also the transitional nuances and focal points, like where to breathe and exactly which muscles to flex. So there is a lot to learn in just that Kuen set, and if it's all you ever learned, it should technically be enough as far as learning the basics of Hung gar. Whether you take those basics into San Shou or some other art, I think there's value to that or at least that's been what I've witnessed. Point being you don't have to learn Hung gar, but doing so as a stepping stone to something else has always been valuable. Wong Fei Hung is a folk hero not so much for his Hung gar mastery, in my opinion brother, but his reputation as a healer who was strong enough to defend others, attributable to his Hung gar training. What greater ideal is there, than to move past the martial application of martial art, and to the greater good? That's a theme with Dr. Kano Jigoro as well as a number of other martial art notables.
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  5. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    Thank you Iron Fist. The way it's done in my school, from what they tell me. Hung gi and fool fu are two different forms. I'm about 3/4's of they way thru the first but the last two weeks have been spent on the first 20 moves. From what I can see no move is wasted. Meaning every single step does something. The other MAs I've done do nothing of the sort. From how to breathe, flex, and when to explode. Wild stuff. Looking forward to learning more..!!
  6. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    They are taught today as two forms, once upon a time they were a single form. When you look at the name, 工字伏虎拳, Gung Gi (工字) means the literal shape of "I", and 伏虎 Fook Fu means to submit a tiger.

    So in Yee's Hung gar they teach as the first two forms the 工字拳, or Gung Gi Kuen, and then the 伏虎拳, Fook Fu Kuen. The Gung Gi Kuen has two different 'endings', one is to end the form, the other is the first movement of the Fook Fu Kuen. Once you know both forms, and how to connect them, congratulations you know 工字伏虎拳 one of the longest and most famous Kung fu forms in the history of China. It really is a sort of treasure and I'm very glad I learned it.
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  7. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    That's the school I'm currently in is Yees in Clifton.
  8. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Taught today by some as two forms. "Once upon a time" we learned it simply as one form. I never heard any of the guys from Yee's line mention learning it as two forms first,but either they just didn't mention it or mayhap Yee has changed things since then. Never heard of Fung teaching it as two forms either,but possible it was just never mentioned. Can't help wondering if this may just be simplification for student retention.

    Due to their length and complexity my guys only learned one pillar a year.

    Say,did you know,at least in some lines there's also a version strictly for females? I've never seen it myself.My teacher,who had seen it a few times,said it was somewhat different.
  9. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    As far as I know, Frank Yee set his curriculum at some point to create the two distinct (but connectable) Kuen sets, so in the Yee's schools today is where you'll find the forms taught separately, and that's how the class notes and grading system is now set up.

    Today this is how they formally grade students at Yee's: Yat Cup Jr is earned upon learning the Gung Gi Kuen, and Yat Cup Sr is upon learning and testing the Fook Fu Kuen. Once you get to Yee Cup Jr, you are learning the Tiger and Crane set. So Brooklyn has two options, he could learn the first form and then test for the first grade, or learn the two forms and test for both Yat Cup Jr and Sr at the same time (which is what I did).
  10. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    I'm learning as I go and I guess it's all up to when they expect me to test. I'm just going to keep chugging along. Learn as much as possible and hopefully try and understand it. Just doing application for the first two sections was pretty eye opening
  11. huoxingyang

    huoxingyang Valued Member

    The story as I understand it is that 工字拳 (Gung ji kuen) and 伏虎拳 (*** Fu kuen) existed as two separate forms, until Wong Fei Hung (黄飞鸿) combined them into a single set, which also included changing 伏虎拳 (*** Fu kuen) to fit the shape.
    Therefore, you could say that practicing the sets separately is a return to the 'old way' and practicing them as a single set is the innovation.
    Also, it seems to be quite common for students of all sorts of lineages to only perform one part in competition, likely for time reasons.
  12. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned***-fu-kyun/

    This link is a good description of what you're referring to, albeit with some historical question marks common to the legendary age of Hung gar (Ji Sin and so forth is the legendary creator of some prototypical form of these sets). Wong Fei Hung was essentially both compiling older, legacy material like the elements in Gung Gi Fook Fu (which was probably taught to him in some form by his father), as well as creating original from the older material, like the Five Animal Fist (which from what I know is a choreographed exposition of material combined from Gung Gi Fook Fu as well as the Tiger and Crane sets). I don't know that form but various versions are available online, mostly the Lam family version (Five animal/five Element) which was an even further exposition of Wong Fei Hung's patterns by Lam Sai Wing).

    The whole form itself is insanely long, which makes it a good candidate for splitting up into 2 pieces as in the Yee's school, or even 18 as seen in this school's description. There are in fact a lot of 'mini-sets' and combinations within the form itself, so it's multi-layered in a way. I think you do get the sense at some times you're learning many older sets that have been tacked together.

    Gung Gi Kuen contains the basic Iron Qigong of the Hung gar system including elements of the Iron Wire Fist (the penultimate set), most of the basic footwork and stance work, the Fook Fu Kuen adds the 5 basic animals/elements (in rough format to be fine tuned later on) and some variations on footwork and stances. So, once you learn both theoretically you know most of the basics of the system, that are then expounded on in the later sets. You even know a little bit of the final set, so that when you get to that (and I have not), you've already been training it for quite some time.
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  13. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    We generally do the iron wire last (although we do other forms with chi gung sections, before the iron wire) .

    If the iron wire is not the final set in your order - what is?
  14. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Sorry brother I sometimes use the term penultimate mistakenly believing it means 'final', but you are correct it means 'next to last'. Iron Wire is technically the last formal empty handed fist set, although by the time you are learning even Tiger Crane, you're also learning the weapons like the saber and staff. The full number of sets (empty and weapon) taught in the Dang Fong Yee's curriculum is probably easily over 15, but there is a lot of overlap in other words, once you've learned the basic sword and staff forms, other weapon forms are similar (since all use the Hung ga empty handed forms as bedrock).

    Of the empty handed sets, in the Dang Fong/Yee's lineage the Iron Wire of the last of four main 'original' pillar sets taught by Wong Fei Hung (or five if you count the Gung Gi Kuen and Fook Fu Kuen as separate sets). The four pillars are Gung Gi Fook Fu (whole thing), then the Tiger Crane Paired set, followed by the original Five Animal or 'Pattern' Fist, and finally the Iron Wire (and you can find bits of Iron Wire throughout the previous three pillars, most notably in the very beginning of the Gung Gi Kuen). However from my reading many schools supplement these four pillars with other smaller, shorter sets, in particular the Lam Sai Wing schools will teach short introductory sets like "Arrow Fist" set, which have elements from the pillars as well as elsewhere. In my Dang Fong school some similar 'mini-sets' were taught, usually to break from routine. I was shown some basic non-Hung gar sets, but I don't remember them since I didn't spend much time practicing. On the other hand, I doubt I could ever forget the Gung Gi Fook Fu Kuen, because I practiced it over and over for years.
  15. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack


    Hi All,

    Well I'm still going strong in Hung Ga. Just started Fu Hok and at the very beginning stages of it. The differences in my training since the beginning are very noticeable, Turtles are somewhat easier, stances are getting easier. It seems Hung Ga is a good fit for me! I've also attended two workshops but I think they were a little advanced for me.
  16. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Does the fact that you are starting tiger and crane mean you have completed taming the tiger? If so, congrats for getting it under your blelt/sash so swiftly. It shows dedication.
  17. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    I learned Gung Ji and Fook fu and tested for them both. Im in the school for just over ten months now and have practiced them everyday, multiple times a day. Luckily the people at my school are very generous, plenty of corrections and pushing.
  18. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    So did you learn Gung Ji Fook Fu as a pair of sets then?

  19. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    That would answer one of my questions about Tang Fong Hung Gar actually. Teaching such a massive form as the first form seems tricky, but as the form does have a natural break point you could easily split it for teaching.
  20. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    Hung ji

    The way I learned it was gung ji, and practice for a few months and test. Then fook fu as a separate form, practice and test. From what I'm told now is I will start to tweak it for the next 25 years if lucky. It was somewhat difficult to learn. But it was a lot of fun and very eye opening. By that I mean every move is something. Not just a random move. Also it's very intense. I think if I didn't have a decent amount of experience in another martial art I would be lost and not where I am now

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