Hung gar kuen, videos, forms, technique,documentry

Mushroom.

I was attempting to make two points.

Point one

Anyone looking at the different videos of the forms can see that they are performed with skill and they are performed differently. Different lines of hung gar do things differently. In the examples of the forms there are some things that I do, some things that I aspire to do and some things that for me are overly stylised and I would not do. There are some movements / expressions that I understand and some that I do not. This does not mean that they are not legitimate. My kungfu is not their kunfu. The way I perform the forms / techniques and express mechanics is the result of where I am and how I got here in my martial arts experience.

Each line has its own way of doing things. In my opinion the value of having a way of doing things is not to distinguish between right and wrong but to provide a common bassline that all in a school can understand and share. For example a movement may be performed one way in the form and this might be relevant to a close fighting application. You would learn the movement you would learn the application. But the movement might have another application at range – performed slightly differently. This could be done differently in the form. But if everybody played every variation of every movement in the form, no form would ever look the same twice. This would be confusing to say the least.

There is legitimate variation in the way that forms are carried out. And there are things to be learned by looking at the way that people do things differently. In my opinion the best way to learn is to look and then do. Look at the video and see if you can do it the same way. Then look at the video again. Then ask a friend to punch you in the face while you try and recreate the mechanic / expression / technique in the video. Note: do this at your own risk, it’s a fair bet you will be punched in the face.

In my opinion In this context any comment other than, “here are some skilled and legitimate ways of doing the forms / applications / techniques, please post examples of you own” is redundant. More to address Ap Oweyns point, while people do of coarse think for themselves on some occasions it can be beneficial to let an example speak for itself, particularly in the context of a resource where people may look at those examples for different reasons at different times.

Point two

Which sort of arises out of point one. It is legitimate to play with different expressions of forms and applications. To literally play. Play is a way of testing boundaries in a safe manner, in fact testing boundaries in play is often encouraged and is often its greatest benefit. The video below for example has two blokes playing at being tigers. There is a distinction between metaphor and the metaphysical (sadly often lost in kungfu). The video shows Tiger techniques. Hung gar being a five animal system is loaded with metaphor. The men in the video do not think that they are channeling the spirit's of tigers, they do not think they are being tigers. They are simply making use of the metaphor of the tiger attack. As the video shows tigers often attack with a bent elbow and a strong relaxed shoulder this creates a power envelope close to the body where there is a strong connection between the movement of the body mass and the strike. This is what you see in the techniques employed by the men.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA3FwJ-oQ68"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA3FwJ-oQ68[/ame]

So they are not tigers but there is something tiger “ish” about the movements and having the metaphor of the tiger can help in learning to perform the movement correctly. Which leads to the observation about performing the lau gar form in a tie chi stile / in the style of tie chi. playing the form in tie chi style is no more doing tie chi than playing an application in a tiger style is fighting as a tiger. However there is overlap between arts, and there are parts of the lau gar form and its applications that are tie chi “ish”. If, by playing the form in a tie chie style then getting a friend to punch you in the face while you practice technique, if you find that you are hit in the face less. Then you have learnt something worthwhile.

Not everybody wants to learn that way that’s ok. But some people find it useful. That’s ok to.

 

Tom,

If people wish to learn that way, they can choose to ignore the commentary and simply watch. The policy is clear. You'll follow it or not, with the logical repercussions. But the policy is clear. Let's move on.

 

Well,if you don't know if it's done slow that just automatically makes it "T'ai Chi like"....has nothing to do with mechanics or anything-just be sloooowwwwwww.




Tom,what's up with the constant spelling as "tie" ? Nobody spells it like this in any Romanization I've seen.

P.S.I'd like to see these guys do their forms at speed.As you're showing these vids for comparative purposes much of the flavor can only be shown at speed.

 

Any constancy is purely coincidental. No doubt other phonetic alternatives will appear over time.

Me to, if you have any clips, it would be great to see them.

This form is played at different speeds depending on what you want to work on. It is also very technical so it is exstreamly difficult to do at speed.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhseLwvFWvE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhseLwvFWvE[/ame]

Allso hung gar forms are Long - you have to be fit to do an entire form at full blast.

 

not really.....

 

Pinyin and Wade-Giles are coincidences?

 

Yeah, here I was thinking they were carefully constructed.

 

Another more obscure form that I learned in another life. We did a small version which is basically the Hoi Jong and this large version. Liked the small version as a good workout.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgqLaIBRSDM"]Guandong Hung Gar Chong Da Kuen-Coliding Strike Fist - YouTube[/ame]

 

Forgive me but I am a little lost..

I see people listing forms but not really saying much about why the form is posted eg how the form is played, what is good or bad about that version, interpretations of the movements etc.

Are we just going to put up a lost of forms then?

Just would like a bit of clarification.

LFD

 

Nope. That quite pointedly would not be what we want. More insight, explanation, and commentary is what we're aiming for as a discussion board.

 

I'm getting good at this. Here is a snippet of the same set (along with some other stuff from the same Hung Gar lineage) as performed by David Rogers Sifu in the UK. He primarily teaches Hap Gar, but as I understand it his sifu also has a family lineage of Hung Gar.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sMUd6v9bdc"]Hung Gar Forms - YouTube[/ame]

Also, some applications of the set:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrchD1hkUow"]Jong Da Applications - YouTube[/ame]

Actually the topic of obscure and non-Wong Fei Hung lineages interests me greatly. There is so much variety in the way the various traditions now called by the name "Hung Gar Kuen" (or some variation of) look and feel. Much more variation than you'll find between any (decent) students of a Wong Fei Hung lineage.

Edit: turns out both guys (David Rogers + the chap in Sifu Ben's video) are from the same Deng family Hung Gar lineage.

 

Interesting thing with David is he knows this form but not any of the other non canon forms I know. There must have been some forms swapping going on in late Qing and early Republican Jiangmen.

 

I had a question about this form from all you other southern stylists. If you look at the second video there is a section after the unicorn stepping (1:19 shows the techniques) that seems to either be missing or hidden in a number of these videos. I am not sure if it is a lineage thing or for secretiveness or what.

You see a series of ''blocks'' (in the vid it looks like a high and low block done simultaneously) done moving forward and then while retreating. Now this looks pretty straightforward here but I have seen/used it as an overhook into an arm break as opposed to the straight grab and hit with the forearm type break that is seen in moi fah or kung gee etc.

Does anyone else know I am taking about? Is this type of overhook/hooking with the forearm before using the other arm to break the elbow not that common? I always thought that this was of the unique things that was present in Lau Gar Kuen but not often (if at all) in other sets.

Looking forward to some ''discussion'' peeps (Lawd I ain't had no discussion for a loooong time!)

:' D

LFD

 

Oh and when I play forms I like to play them in a Mai tai style ;' )

:' D

LFD

 

Pure speculation on my part, but could it be related to the fact that David is primarily into/teaches Hap Gar? Maybe that was the focus of his studies and the Hung Gar just bonus material for interest. Also, forms get swapped around or absorbed by other schools/styles fairly commonly, so it wouldn't be unimaginable.

 

As far as I have learnt, attacking the elbow joint in various ways seems to be a fairly typical strategy of Hung Gar, and the Lau Gar Kuen set. Certainly I don't think the move you are talking about appears in other Hung Gar sets.

Thinking about it a bit more, there are a number of instances (for example in the Gung Ji set) where both arms are used, one after the other, the first to "bridge" an opponent's arm by catching/hooking/bashing it, and then the second arm follows with an attack to the elbow joint or some other target.

 

It's your thread,if you want to compare beyond the outer shape....

Speaking of which,any vids of the lady's version of Gung Gee?

TS usually isn't performed at boxing speed.The others are,or should be.

Well,I'm not expecting vids of the older guys going full tilt-but the younger guys,why not? We used to do them that way over,and over,and over, and....

...including full length and full tilt in tourneys.

No,he meant his consistencies would be coincidental.(Humor)

You mean you wear a little paper parasol? Or you're just so wasted they all become "Eight Drunken Immortal" forms?

 

[/QUOTE]You mean you wear a little paper parasol? Or you're just so wasted they all become "Eight Drunken Immortal" forms?[/QUOTE]

Both, you wouldn't want to believe what passes for fashion in the Midlands!!

;' D

LFD

 

AFAIK he knows all the Deng family Hung material, and he'd know of the forms if he didn't.