Hsing-I student,not getting the internal thing?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by franksv, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. franksv

    franksv Valued Member


    I ve been learning/practicing Hsing-I for 2 years now.I like the style alot,I ve gone as far as santi,5 fists,linking forms and I have learned 3 of the 12 animals.The reasons for me really feeling this style fits me have nothing to do with the "internal aspect".

    -I started in boxing as a kid and am partial to styles that focus on hands

    -I like the way the 5 fists blend with one another

    -I like the way hsing-I always has a guard(forms&drill) up unlike my last long term style where the fist came back to the belt before blocking or striking.

    -So far I really see how the animals expand on the 5 fists in practical applications as well as conditioning the body.(dragon is a tough form).

    -I like how hsing-I takes a small amount of material and trains the hell out of it.Qaulity vs quantity seems to be a source of its power.

    As far as the internal,what I get is useing and working towards, using your whole body to move and strike.I see how the strikes become very powerful,but thats about it.I also see the value of the standing aspect of santi to increase sensitivity,correct tension,rooting and to make the body strong in a,shall I say martial way?My teacher talks about chi and other stuff and I read about it on forums but as far as I can see,its about the body as one unit.Am I clueless,or have I just over simplified the internal aspect?Thoughts/comments would be appreciated by any ima students of any level.

  2. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi Frank and All,

    Sounds exactly right to me :)

    There MAY be an esoteric aspect to internal martial arts - and if so that's fine - but you seem to be doing very well with what you have.

    All the best.

  3. middleway

    middleway Valued Member

    Xing Yi is internal through and through. The level of training you discribe is the first stage, once you have the external harmonies you can soften and you also begin working with the organs and their power directly as they relate to the 5 elements.

    Pi = Lungs
    Tsuan = Kidneys
    Beng = Liver / spleen
    Pao = Heart
    Heng = Stomach

    (this lists order varies between traditions ... but is how i was taught it)

    There is a direct relation to these organs and there power in the 5 fists. You physically, mentally and energetically work these organs as your perform each of the 5 elements and their corrisponding healing sounds .. this relates to the health aspect and the fighting aspect. When you start to work this Organ power it really starts to change your power into something rather crazy!

    Maybe another 5 years in that first stage and i can start working this .... ha ha ha

    I dont think 'internal/external' ... I just practice. if you dont put something in a box it is free to be everything ...

    happy training.


    PS ... yeh dragons a killer ;)
  4. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    Thanks for your words of encouragement robertmap.

    middleway,thats one of the best explanations I ve heard so far,thanks.

    Don't get me wrong,I am fond of my teacher,as a teacher and friend,but many times I am wondering what the heck he's talking about when it comes to this stuff.I have also kinda of discounted the whole internal/external thing and just train.Train it to the best of my abilitys and understanding.

  5. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Sounds like you're doing it right to me, Frank
    just train and avoid antagonism about qi, internal/external and the rest of it :cool: most of all keep your mind open and be patient...
  6. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    As has been said dont over worry about the internal / External thing if you are enjoying your training just keep going for it. I have trained with quite a few internal teachers from different places and the best ones rarely mention chi or spend very little time on details concerning chil.
  7. Durkhrod Chogori

    Durkhrod Chogori Valued Member

    Do you practice any Zhuan Zhang and sitting meditation?

    If you don't then you are just doing 1/2 of the job.

  8. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    It's Zhan Zhuang. Zhuan Zhang (Turning Palm) is an old name for Bagua. I can't imagine there would be a Xingyi curriculum without Santi-shi, a type of zhan zhuang.

    As for the internal part, you have to do qigong dilligently for at least a year or two to start to grasp of how it could be used for martial purposes or relate to the organs, both of which are actually pretty advanced. To actually use qigong in martial arts to an appreciable degree is more advanced and difficult than to use it for health alone.

    Qigong is actually seperate from zhan zhuang imo, though some might disagree...

    It's a common misconception that qigong is just about getting the body to work as a unit. That is body mechanics, which are important and which Xingyi focuses on heavily. However, qi, which is the body's energy, is seperate from the body's movement. Qi can move while the body holds still.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2006
  9. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    I practice santi and a standing posture I only know as "hold the ball".
  10. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    Just train and you will eventually get to where you want to be.
  11. Angelsweet

    Angelsweet Banned Banned


    My Sifu says "practice". That is all. If you practice you will discover everything.

    I've said it before on here.

    Xing Yi Quan is a path of discovery & transformation.
    You can learn all the form but have nothing if you do not practice and become one with the 5 element fists.

    If you understand the fists and how they interact with each other. Not just the cycle of distruction or creation, but how they interact with each other in every combination then all the animals and all the forms become easy.

    It is like learning to read or play an instrument:
    Once you understand how it works you can read any book, or play any tune.

    If you do not understand, then you can copy or reproduce the music, but not understand or be able to interpret it correctly.

    So yes.....Don't worry too much about thinking about to much, just practice correctly and in time you will understand.

    Good luck!

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