How to create a Kata...(a link)

Discussion in 'Karate' started by chrispy, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. chrispy

    chrispy The Hunter

    http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2008/01/07/how-to-create-a-kata/

    This is an article on 24 fighting chickens, I have not had the time to read the whole thing yet... but I know I am going to, and that likely it will be of some use.

    Sensei has told me (Monday in fact) that as part of my brown belt cirriculem I have to come up with a kata.

    Have any of you created a kata before? how did you go about this? did it turn out the way you wanted? as you planned it from the start? or did it change along the way?
     
  2. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Hi chrispy,

    Just out of interest, what style of Karate do you do?

    It has never really occured to me before that a Karate-ka should consider creating their own Kata.

    On the one hand I suppose the traditionalist in me says that the Kata in my style are there for a reason and are pretty much all you need to know. (when practiced alongside Kihon And Kumite etc)

    On the other hand though I suppose the process of creating a kata can make you look at your Karate from a fresh perspective and therefore can't be bad.

    The article you linked is predominantly about how to make a Kata that will look good in competition, which to me is the wrong reason to do Kata in the first place really.

    To be fair though it does also point out that you can seek to create a kata for self defence purposes, but I think it would be very hard to quantify whether it would actually work. And if you can’t do that, then all you are doing really is putting together a series of Karate moves that look aesthetically pleasing... Perhaps.
     
  3. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    I must admit it strikes me as a little odd to have to create a kata , but that said
    i think i'd look at the techniques i'm strong/good at , think of a theme and go from there.
     
  4. Sam

    Sam Absent-ish member

    At what grade do you stop learning the Kata already in the syllabus?

    As with the previous posters it's not something I have thought of doing. There's enough food for thought and new Kata to learn in the style already.

    Different horses though. Keep us up to date on your progress!
     
  5. donb

    donb restless spirit

    IMO, unless you have trained in multiple arts or have a higher rank black belt...i find it "nonsense" to create a kata since your knowledge level is still limited (becoming a brown belt). A kata is a set of movements which could be based on the number of opponents or a reaction to an initial response (as in, if i break your leg, you will lower your guard, so i can smack your face)- an reaction to a predictable outcome. There's so many "what if's?" and current syllabus covered a lot of ground that what you will not find in one kata, you will ran into in another kata somewhere along the line. Modifying a kata to fit current times would be more appropriate (as in, we don't do high kicks to knock a person off a horse anymore). Also, testing the effectiveness of what you create is not really that easy.
     
  6. Kenpo_Iz_Active

    Kenpo_Iz_Active Greek Warrior-not 300

    i have in fact made two katas. I think i planned it as i was going along. in case you need further assistance, its kind of simple. you can make just blocks, strikes, anything you find useful in terms of self-defense, put it in.
     
  7. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    I know exactly what you mean, and that's what puts me off about the whole thing.

    If you create a kata using stuff you are good at, it’s all a little bit too easy.

    Personally, I think you learn the most from the kata that you feel is the most awkward to do. For me, that kata is Chinto (Gankaku), and it’s probably the one I neglect the most in my training which is wrong. If I practiced it more, maybe I would improve on my weak points!!

    But as Skc_Wado Says Horses... etc
     
  8. Croweater

    Croweater New Member

    Kata synthesis is something that I've been trying to learn more about, myself.

    Above all else, a kata must function as a mnemonic. That is, by reciting the kata, the practitioner should be revising their system's applications.

    Kata seem to work as mnemonics because they contain a basic version of a technique, which can then be extrapolated into several versions, at different angles, configuration etc. Several techniques in one, you could say.

    Traditionally karateka would only have a couple of kata, which formed the basis of their karate. In many modern karate schools, kata have been replaced in this role by kihon, which (depending on the style, teacher etc) often focuses almost entirely on strikes and blocks and marginalises the grappling and throws etc.

    So to create a mnemonic kata, you have to consider:
    1. What techniques does your system comprise?
    2. How can these techniques be grouped together in terms of application?
    3. What is the simplest way to represent the application of those techniques?

    In making the pattern practical, you also need to make sure that you stay within a relatively small space. If you go by modern kata, keep it within about a 6m x 6m (20' x 20') square. It is also worth making the footwork so that you finish on the same spot you start. This has two functions: Neatness; and to assist it's function as a mnemonic: If you make a mistake in the kata then you will finish in the wrong spot.

    The only downside to this is that the footwork has the potential to confuse the application of the techniques. This occurs in some Goju kata where sweeps are aimed on the opposite side as the previous technique. All this means is that the meaning of the moves has to be made absolutely clear (verbally) when tranmitting it from teacher to student.

    A master is able a good kata because they know the application of the art inside and out. A student cannot because they have holes in their technical knowledge, and are constantly learning. If a sensei effectively teaches their art using kata to establish the basis of the fighting system, then the student should never need new kata, unless, for some reason, they feel they want to change or add to the system.

    Basically, if there is some need to create a kata to serve as a mnemonic and as the basis of the karate system, then the existing kata, or the student's understanding of these kata, must be lacking in some way.
     
  9. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Hi Croweater, good post.

    I have a little bit of a different viewpoint about the whole "mnemonics" thing concerning kata really, but I take your point and I agree with the underlying theme of your post.

    On the aesthetic side of things I don’t think that kata should "necessarily" start and finish in the same point. The Pinan (Heian) Katas do, but in the most part, it is my experience that many of the major katas do not. I think perhaps that Funakoshi "cropped" Shotokan katas so that they started and finished in the same place, (probably for the reasons you mentioned), but certainly in Wado many do not.
     
  10. Croweater

    Croweater New Member

    Cheers Gary,

    I figure it's purely an optional thing (start/finish on same spot). I laughed out loud the first time I saw Chinte, with the three little hops at the end: It would have been better just to finish in a different spot than do that, I think. And then you have people trying to find practical applications for the hops, oh dear...

    Just out of curiousity, what is your viewpoint on the "mnemonics" thing?
     
  11. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Well I suppose that could be a new thread on its own.

    My thoughts are not a million miles away from yours, but differ as a result of the way that Wado (solo) katas are approached in terms of Bunkai or potential application of the techniques contained within.

    In a nutshell, it is my understanding that Wado katas are practiced slightly differently than that of their Okinawan ancestors and this hinges around how to apply what is learnt in the kata to any variety of potential combat scenarios.

    For me practicing Katas is important because they teach me the "principles" fundamental to Wado such as Taisabaki, Nagasu, Irimi etc. more so than they do individual techniques and how to apply them to any potential combination of attack and defence situations.

    So I suppose Wado practitioners use Kata as a "mnemonic" but it’s a different means to the same end… maybe.
     
  12. chrispy

    chrispy The Hunter

    I do what is "officially" called North American Freestyle karate... the cirriculem sheets we get for each belt are based very much on sparring, our self defense is more based around Kempo and some Jujitsu. (and to head off other questions - yes the two main instructors at our club have the approprite grading to teach those arts)

    The Kata to be made is not for use in teaching other students - but I guess more as a tool to see where I'm at. As it's been mentioned a few times it takes someone who really understands their art (and maybe others) to create... prehaps that is part of the excersize? to see how much I understand.

    Another asked when do (I) stop learning kata already in the syllubus (or however you spell that) and my answer is - I don't know, on our cirriculem sheet up to Brown Belt (this will be the first time there is a brown belt sheet (Sensei has premoted I think 3 other people to BB in about 10 years - but without an actual written down version of what he'd like to see) ... um yeah- on the sheets there is only 4 kata's we have to know, but at least the last two promoted BB's had to know 12 or 16 of them, our 4 which a long time ago, by sensei's instructor were based off more traditional form, as well as the heians, tacioukous (I have no idea how to spell that!) some basic four and eight directional forms and then a few assorted others that got picked up along the way. - so if the goal is 16.. I have at least 6 more to learn and maybe 4 more to practice more regularly so that I know them without thinking... again creating the kata is not for incorperating as one of our "main" ones or anything like that.
     
  13. FadedKamui

    FadedKamui New Member

    I didn't get to read through everyone else's posts here, so I don't know if this was already mentioned, but you should begin your kata with a blocking technique, as in Karate, you are not to make the first attack. Karate is a self defense.

    -Hope I don't sound too obvious or "new" with that comment, but hopefully it helps :)
     
  14. Anari

    Anari Valued Member

    "Apples & Oranges"

    The phrase “Square Peg / Round Hole” immediately comes to mind. The OP has revealed that the “style” of Martial Arts is “North American Freestyle Karate” which is not karate at all. Entirely too much thought and effort is being afforded this topic. The typical NASKA “North American Sport Karate Assoc” forms are very acrobatic, a lot of flashy kicks, spins, jumps and the such, but clearly do not stand the test of time. Very “fun” to watch at the black belt level (if properly executed) but a lot of the “material” the lower ranks simply cannot effectively perform. Typically, at least in North America… It’s “us & them”. We, the traditional Japanese and Okinawan karate-ka do not fair well at their tournaments, nor do they at ours.

    Back to the topic.

    We train in Kata to develop Power/Speed/Form and a balance of the three primary elements while practicing the transition from stance to stance executing blocks and strikes. The interpretation of the Kata or Bunkai can be quite diverse. Blocks… becoming joint locks… transitioning to breaks… facilitating take-downs (disposing of that opponent).

    Simply put (imop), Kata “IS” Karate… Bunkai is the interpretation of technique… and Kumite is the practical application of both.

    Understand that I’m not “bagging” on the NASKA style of forms…. They are extremely fun to watch if done well…. However, they are what they are… an ever changing conglomeration of made up forms and techniques (usually for tournament). Many of my peers run NASKA type schools… They are the first to admit that their system of Karate (term used loosely) has no depth.

    To the original poster… wanna really make a statement at your review? Learn and run O'Naihanchi (grin).

    My $.02
     
  15. chrispy

    chrispy The Hunter

    At first I had a big long thing responding to your post Anari, but after finishing felt it was unfair to devote so many words to you and so few to the people that are actually trying to contribute.

    So the short version is this:
    1) Our club isn’t affiliated with the NASKA – in fact I’ve never heard of it
    2) Sounds like you think I do all flash no substance karate – when in actuality it’s pretty much exactly the opposite

    3) "We train in Kata to develop Power/Speed/Form and a balance of the three primary elements while practicing the transition from stance to stance executing blocks and strikes. The interpretation of the Kata or Bunkai can be quite diverse. Blocks… becoming joint locks… transitioning to breaks… facilitating take-downs (disposing of that opponent)."

    Ditto

    So please before you dismiss me, and my art based on your misconstrued interpretation of the club style "title” and what you think you know, maybe you should either try to find out things before you bash, or just go with the thread and help out.



    As for how it’s coming so far… I haven’t put too much thought into the kata as a whole so far, but have spent a considerable amount of time in the last couple weeks working with Pete (we graded for Brown belt at the same time) on various things locks and throws and such, also studying his particular way of performing the katas we know already – he’s got a very precise and exacting style when he demonstrates, as opposed to my emphasis on power for the strikes and flowing of one technique to the next. It would be easier to put something together if there was not a foot of snow on the ground and I could practice in my backyard easily instead of dodging people and looking confused to myself while trying to figure things out on the club floor. Once I have a rough outline of what seems good I’ll get it on tape and open it up to constructive criticism.
     

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