How to add power to your kicks?

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by Saved_in_Blood, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Hey all... I don't study Muay Thai (though i'd like to, but I live out in the sticks and the instructors are a long way), I study combat hapkido. The thing about it is that I am encouraged by my instructors to add in things and that it's sort of an evolving art for each person. I feel the Thai kicks are obviously powerful and would be a good addition to my studies. I know literally nothing about the kicks. I feel like I may have the stance almost correct as well as the hip turning.

    My questions are, aside from just kicking over and over, what is a good way to add power to the kicks? In my art, all kicks are to be kept below the waist for the obvious reason you have less chance to get your foot caught.

    My other question would be, what do you all do for shin conditioning? I hear a lot of myths about it, but i'd rather just hear it straight from people who do it on a regular basis. I am going to buy a stand up WM XXL because a hanging bag will be to loud and shake the whole house and I have a baby coming so I don't need to wake him up if possible.

    So, how many kicks per day do you all do? If i'm starting out, what is a good way to progress along? I work from home so I have a lot of time.

    Also, are their good leg kick combinations to practice? Inside and then outside leg kick back and forth? Open to whatever suggestions.
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKdoj8srBz0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKdoj8srBz0[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2CystnfGVE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2CystnfGVE[/ame]
     
  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I always thought Rob Kaman could get a little more pivot on his supporting leg.
    I mean obviously he kicks hard but his foot is pretty static.
     
  4. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    First off the conditioning comes from kicking the bag. You don't need to be doing any other conditioning, certainly not the rolling of stick up and down your shins.

    As for quantity of kicks, less is more. What I mean is an untrained boxer on the bag throws loads of lunches, the good amateur or professional throws less, but works on positioning, recovery, execution etc.

    In terms of progression it does depend on your needs, but I've found students pause between punches and kicks, so maybe work on the fluidity. Kick, punch, kick, or punch, kick, punch.

    I have also found that structuring rounds helps a lot.

    Round 1. Be in range at all times. Kick, check balance and positioning, then kick again.

    Round 2. Be one step out of range. Step in, kick and move out of range.

    Round 3. Move into range, punch then kick, move back out of range.

    You can see that this is really basic, but I've found the structure keeps the workout enjoyable, rather than just kicking because you feel you should.
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Then there is this from a God amongst Men......

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYvyn8wG8QI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYvyn8wG8QI[/ame]
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hahah...I just criticised Rob Kamen. Get me.

    This is awesome. Love the last 30 seconds. So fluid.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB3yvue-aiE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB3yvue-aiE[/ame]

    Oh and note how much the arms play a part in helping build power and transitioning between kicks.
     
  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    When I think of the low kick I think of 4 ways of throwing it.
    I call these ways "stationary", "step", "skip" and "sprint". The 4 S's.
    "Stationary" is throwing a kick straight of. No footwork. Only really useful if your opponent is closing distance for you.
    "Step" is what Baz and Kamen do. Setting the hips and moving the bodyweight.
    "Skip" is what Buakaw is doing. A more ballistic type of step with spring from the feet, ankles and calves.
    And "sprint" is a full on running kick like taking a penalty kick. Where your feet actually cross each other in a striding pattern. USeful for chasing down a stunned opponent or kicking really deep into his stance to reap a supporting leg.
    Fanny about with those in a bag and see which you like.
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    SiB,

    Pay close attention to the footwork in each of those clips. There's a step through the target in each case that may be even more important than hip rotation. (In fact, Bas Rutten explicitly says as much. He's well known for not espousing the hip turn.) They step into each kick. But here's where logging the time on the heavy bag comes in. Step too far and you snuff the momentum of your own kick. Don't step far enough and you limit the penetration through the target. Get it right, and you'll have a good solid kick. Whether you emphasize the hip rotation or no.
     
  9. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    One thing to notice is that Rutten explains how to kick one way and then proceeds to kick another way when he kicks with power.
    He steps for sure but he also pivots on his foot even though he says not to do that.
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'd rather pivot. One because it's what I prefer, but I also feel it adds some protection to the knee of the supporting leg. I'd rather not twist with the knee locked in place.
     
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    A couple of things can prevent the counter shot.
    The opposite hand comes up to the forehead and the kicking side shoulder raises up to protect the other side.
    The arm that sweeps back as the kick comes out can also disrupt and interfere with a counter too.
    But there is an avenue for a counter punch and a straight right is a common counter to a low kick.

    For me it's a compromise. I can kick with a good guard and attempt to pre-empt a counter but lose some power or get my arms involved lose some defence but really lace that kick in.
    Sometimes I'll favour one more than the other. :)
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I think that is a bi-product of the movement - Bas is pointing out that pivoting gives an incorrect mechanical alignment as it places you straight in front
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    As I said above I feel he is showing the step AS thr pivot...the movement takes you into the pivot rather than vice versa
     
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You can try....

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67qcX5MIKNM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67qcX5MIKNM[/ame]

    Kaman had 112 professional fights 97 wins, with 72 by way of KO and he also won his only MMA match.

    Dude knows his stuff!
     
  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Another thing is don't extend your toes. To generate more power keep your foot at a 90 degree angle from your shin. Ala Cro-Cop style.
     
  17. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I'm glad to hear that actually. I'm not a fan of kicking without pivot. I had another kickboxing coach try and get me into a similar habit. Liked him a lot. Not such a big fan of the kicking approach.
     
  18. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    One of the videos I had watched a while back had the guy putting his elbow up and sort of wrapping his arm around his face is the best way to explain it. It seemed like a good idea for protection though.

    I'm looking for the video, but I can't find it atm.
     
  19. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I was actually going to say, even though i'm no one to comment on someone such as Bas' technique, that if you twisted the wrong way or just got hit there, it might open up the possibility for more damage to your own knee... especially if one is prone to bad knees to begin with.
     
  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I find that if you don't pivot there is always a point when the hips are closing. By pivoting your hips remain open, which improves power in the kick.

    The other advantage to pivoting is that the foot, knee and hip remain in alignment, which I assume stops the knee going ping.

    I say assume because I've always pivoted.

    Although not a Thai kick, here is a really old picture of me kicking.

    Note how the foot, knee and hip are in alignment at the point of contact.

    Hook Kick.jpg
     

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