How necessary is hard/full contact for realistic training? Why?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Hazmatac, Mar 25, 2014.

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  1. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    That nonsensical and yet another cop out.

    You can give a name of someone on the circuit without revealing who you are.

    You need to realise that if you say something here you will have to back it up, it's fairly standard debating procedure on forums.

    To be honest you need to do some serious growing up, you come across as very inexperienced in a number of areas.
     
  2. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    I tend to agree. Just wanted to point out that point fighters can beat full contact guys even in their own styles.
     
  3. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    I mean both on the street and sparring in dojos. Competition is different.
     
  4. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    Regardless of the location they would still need to learn how to deal with power. I dont know much about karate but in boxing its a common problem, people often close up and get scared when they take hits more powerful than they are used to. I would imagine the same would apply with karate/TKD styles.

    Taking full power hits is not something that comes naturally to most people and it requires a fair bit of effort to desensitise yourself / toughen up. A 'street fight' or a 'ring fight' will not change that.
     
  5. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    There will always be exceptions. I don't know how common it is, but I at least know of people that somehow manage. Maybe they didn't get hit. I wasn't there. But we are talking elite here. Like world championship contenders.

    It might very well be true that point fighters are hopeless at lower levels. I wouldn't bet on them at any rate.
     
  6. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    I am not saying point fighters are hopeless but I am saying that transitioning between semi contact to full contact requires some work. Some people will find it easier and some people will struggle. An individual who has a vast experience and skill advantage over their opponent will find it significantly easier than some one who is less skilful / experienced than their opponent.

    I would be interested to know who these world championship level competitors are who are having full contact fights on 'the streets'. It's not something that would happen often I wouldn't think.
     
  7. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    There is no time for transitioning for the street. I thought that was what were discussing? How well it bodes you for realistic situations. Not sure why you guys are talking about competitions.
     
  8. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    [​IMG]

    You know the "Oh, I know a guy but I refuse to mention it or give any details because you're all obviously going to go out of your way to find out who I am and I'm totally not down for that, mkay?" crap doesn't wash well on this forum, right?

    So you know "world championship contenders" who transitioned from semi contact to full contact fights, destroyed full contact fighters in a full contact environment, know who they are but won't name them "because it partly reveals who you are"...and yet you weren't there and don't actually know or (presumably) didn't see them and didn't train to fight full contact?

    By Thor's thundering nut-sack, sometimes you just might want to consider stopping and engaging your brain before posting. Sometimes, you might just even want to accept you don't know or that you're wrong. It would save you being called out on a lot more.

    ...:bang:

    ...Say, have you thought about going over to Bullshido? They're a great set of guys, they'd love to get to know someone with your experiences better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  9. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    Confrontational idiots on this site. I won't start bitching these things.

    I am a total idiot myself. I couldn't possibly know of a point fighter beating upp full contact fighters. Nah, couldn't be!!!

    Bye.
     
  10. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    ...Ok...:dunno:

    =====

    Gonna ask what is probably a daft question here, but there we go.

    Joint locks in a high pressure training scenario. What's the etiquette for that kind of thing? Do you avoid slamming on the lock too hard to avoid hurting your partner or do you go through with it anyway and hope your partner doesn't get hurt?

    It probably is a stupid question but it was something that occurred to me recently after I had a friendly wrestle with one of the guys from my kickboxing club last week. I ended up getting into position to pull off an arm bar, extended his arm but didn't actually apply the lock or put any pressure on as I don't think he's ever seen an arm bar before. The end result was I ended up letting him up and we rolled some more.

    But since I come from an Aikido background, non-compliant grappling and such isn't something that's particularly in my repertoire :p. So I thought I'd ask.
     
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I'd rather 'lose' a match or a submission than hurt my opponent. Putting them to sleep doesn't hurt them too much though, so there's always that.
     
  12. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    You COULD know such people and they COULD have done such things. Neither is particular likely and together they are incredibly unlikely. If you are going to come up with highly implausible scenarios then be prepared to ask for irrefutable evidence. The less likely the 'fact' the more work is required to prove it, that is assuming you want people to beleive you.

    Nothing daft there unless I missed something lol. I think that kind of thing needs to be discussed before hand as it requires knowing your partner quite well as flexibility and pain thresholds can change that dynamic drastically. Knowing if they have any niggling joint issues is also important, locks can come on very sharply on sore joints as my old sempai found out when I was an enthusiastic white belt learning kote geish.
     
  13. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    I just have to respond to this because its mindblowingly stupid. What will I prove by giving out names? You think theres youtube clips of these actual fights or that these guys have wikipedia biographys? And that these bios tell stories of street fights against full contact guys?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  14. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    So you genuinely expect us to beleive your anecdote at face value that a series of unlikely incidents resulted in you hearing through the grape vine that a point fighter beat a trained full contact fighter (you named kuyokosuin) in an unregulated fight on the street(z) ? *

    As you have yet to provide a single fact to back up any of the (mainly wrong) opinions your so vocal about then why should I take this at face value? If you had so far on this forum provided us with a plethora of usefull and well researched insights then I might be more inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt. That is far from the truth in your case as you have managed to offend nearly every person on this site with next to no valuable input and ruined several meaningful debates in the process.

    *Edit - for the record I don't think its impossible for a point fighter to beat a full contact fighter. I beleive that it's possible but before it can be accepted as a common or replicable phenominon a lot more details are requires. What styles, what grades, weight difference, did the point fighter have some full contact experience, sobriety etc are all factors here that are not mentioned but could vastly sway the situation in one direction or another.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  15. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    This was a smaller guy( not saying he was short) abusing his own talents. He badmouthed bigger guys in nightclubs with backgrounds in Boxing, Muay Thai, e.tc. its well known over here but nobody would know it elsewhere in the world. Fine if you dont believe it, but dont tell me that I can prove it by giving out names.
     
  16. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Without wishing to defend him , there were a number of KUGB guys in the 70s and 80s who though technically point fighters were hard as nails worked the doors and , I suspect , could have held their own against full contact guys , Terry Oniel would be the most well known , having met Ronnie Christopher I believe would also be one.
    For the record , I also believe this has more to do with them than their training , Ronnie has stated that if it had existed when he started training he would have gone into mma rather than Karate.
     
  17. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    I don't doubt that semi contact styles can produce excellent fighters, I just beleive that before some one fights full contact they need to get used to the full contact. Whilst there are many practitioner who have successfully made the transition they have all had some training/experience in contact. Working doors is an example of how this could be done. As an ex-doorman I know what that job can be like and shall leave the debate on how good a doormans hand to hand skills need to be for another time.

    I beleive that it could have happened I just asked for more details before it could be taken seriously as evidence I have not asked for names but I think 'a guy in a club' is not a great level of detail. From his previous posts I think the burden of proof lies heavily on his shoulders.
     
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Lets be honest - you have made a rod for your own back

    Most of what you type is wrong, you are inexperienced and under-qualified on nearly everything you write on (including the one thing that actually gives you your screen name)

    Your attitude displays a lack of maturity and further underlines that your experience is pretty much zero - so when you post "I know a man who's brothers best friends dogs saw him win a fight" you will get called on it because your track record is so poor
     
  19. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Not disagreeing with you at all , I also think the time that the guys I mentioned competed is significant , from what I've been told early "semi contact" wasn't much like the game of tag we now see.
     
  20. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    The thing is you do come across as being a little lacking in certain cognitive areas, now that in itself is not a bad thing after all we are all different.

    However having a little tantrum each time you get corrected is a problem and your inability to understand the simplest of concepts with regards to discussion is what is getting in your way.

    Make a claim then back it up, especially when asked to in cases of disagreement. Otherwise your words aren't worth very much.

    It wouldn't be so bad if you sounded like you actually knew what you were in about, sadly you don't.
     
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