Hello Kiai Carita, I just learned a lot more from you. About looking for someone heroic on the Net,... Please, that is exactly the type of guy I am NOT looking for. From my experience, that's the type of guy who is all talk but has no real knowledge, skill or experience. I prefer discussing with someone who has no ego, no business to sell, and without ulterior motives. About using the right feeling...In Merpati Putih, the tenaga or energy is understood as a force. I have practised another Silat style where the guys explained to me that the energy that enters the practitioner is actually aware. It has consciuosness. In other words, it is a spirit. I know some practitioners frown on this kind of practise and say that we are working with djinns. Have you another kind of explanation for this? You mentioned before about getting the feeling and spirit of the tiger.
Red Bagani...should I call you Mas Red? -meaning Gold (elder or younger) brother Red? ... People talk about jinns, fairies, leprachauns, wewe gomble, banaspati, ... are all trying to capture some natural phenomenon in words. Words which are imbeded and connected to every aspect within their culture, no, more than that, their life reality. Out there in the unseen there is good and bad just like in the world we see. :Angel: In Islam there are Jinns, Syaithans, and Malaikats. Jinns and Syaithans have free will like humans but the angels obey Allah always. This is Islam's way of explaining the unseen, but Islam does not claim that this is all the unseen is ( :bang: unless you are talking to an oil-money-spoilt-brat Wahabi :bang: ) also Islam has the disclaimer that only Allah knows the unseen, and whoever knows only knows a little. Westerners now say everything is energy, vibration shapes the grouping of atoms. The truth remains that we still know so little, life is a great force and a great mystery. Now about capturing the spirit there are two ways in Javanes poetic practices. The first is considered cheating and low quality art, :woo: it is to bring some soul into you to perform your art. The term is kelungguhan, to be sat on. The Jawa ideal is to lungguh. To (spiritually) sit down and create your art with gregel (as if it is just soooooo simple as flexing young nose). To get there you must do greget-sawiji-sengguh-nora mingkuh--- I think I posted about that earlier. In simple Welsh it is DRILL!DRILL!DRILL! but not mechanically, rather with totality. Merpati Putih is a proper Jawa art so it seeks to get the second option. Both options have the practitioner in trance. It is the same trance only Merpati Putih would hope Mas Red would be a tiger a'la Mas Red, with character and individuality, sensitivity, mercy, and so on. The Tiger Mas Red might be possessed by calling or special training in an other art might a Tiger spirit-energy-jinn-thingy which has differen morals, feelings, responsibilities, existence, than Mas Red. Mas Red calls this Tiger and becomes posessed and the Tiger fights using mas Red's body. After the fight you might be arrested, you might have HIV positive blood in your mouth, you might be anything Holywood can imagine. You have been posessed, sat upon, kelungguhan. You let some 'devil' take over your body. In the very least your body will be sore all over from being moved by 'someone else'. People who do not understand thought that you were a great artist but those who know think you are a prostitue who does not respect your own body or soul as God's best creation. What happens if the fight happens in Sydney where there are no tiger spirits available and a koala or a wombat enters the pendekar instead of a tiger? However the true Force, like the force talked about in Star Wars, the Bible, Al Qur'an, Bhagawad Gita, Wedhatama, Deru Campur Debu and all tru art also does also have a soul. To bring out your true life force and personality you must let this soul move you. Islamic concepts like the untranslatable word IKHLAS are key into letting this God Breath / Tao guide your movements. There is a difference between good and evil. According to our ancestors who created the Calon Arang total theatre of Bali, Good is the practice of bringing to life. Evil is the practise of killing. Sederhana tapi simple. The true Mas Red can chose either and still be true to his character. Salam hormat.
Terima Kaseh, Kiai Carita, for your lengthy explanation. I think I am beginning to see where my problem in understanding lies. Hi. Is this manner of fighting considered superior, or simply different, from the other ways of fighting? Some styles prefer not to make any pre-fight gestures but the pesilat has developed this to an extreme degree. I am actually more versed in Filipino Arnis. The ideal strike is a pre-emptive move when the opponent is not yet prepared. This is done in the context of a real fight or a challenge match. Once a threat has been discerned, it is considered fair to strike the first blow. A threat is considered just as serious as a physical attack. This has nothing to do with morality but with practicality. Even among Filipino Muslims (at least from the limited exposure I got) using Silat/Kuntao, they don't like to telegraph their moves. The bunga is not as elaborate as those I have seen in Malaysia or Indonesia. We have done some interesting things with our combat arts. The Filipino Kris, for example, is very distinct from other South-East Asian versions. The Filipino Kris is larger and wider so that it has become not just a stabbing weapon as in the case of Indonesia and Malaysia, but it can also be used for slashing like a sword. The handle and tang of the blade has been modified to fit to this form of fighting. The Filipino Kris is reflective of the pragmatic mentality of the Moro fighter. In fact, this is true of other Filipino martial arts. (We consider the Silat/Kuntao arts found in Mindanao as true Filipino martial arts). In traditional arnis, for example, we do not have choreographed forms or kata. I am still looking for the pragmatic application of said moves and I think I am beginning to get some insights. By the way, Kembangan is not a native term so a Moro may know it only by some other term. About the different methods of getting into the spirit ... I guess that is basically a choice, then. So far, I have no problems with both methods. Most pesilat I know prefer developing their own spirit and energy. The other method...ahhh, it seems like a short-cut but is actually more complicated. I don't recommend it for most people. Maybe better not recommend it, period.
kembangan is different in many systems of silat. sometimes it looks like karate. sometimes it looks like empty hand kali. we call it (bunga) in our group. combining the jurus with the lanka's makes your own dance not someone elses. it is your life story that comes out kinda like carenza from kali. very easy to copy someone else, but hard to make your own. at least i think its hard. paul
Oneness... nice stuff here- very informative & relevant; now from what i know & experienced (Tausug silat-kuntaw is my art: from the Philippines' Sulu Archipelago), the way we do kembangan is from a very combative point of view: both sizing up d enemy/gauging d distance, & trying to focus & flow w/ one's energy,tactics, approach...a silater w/ a deeper understanding knows this- oneness is being achieved thru motion, intent, purpose. thus anticipating ur enemy & dealing w/ him/her in d most direct, simplest manner possible. reacting yet being proactive- all the while aware of one's innerself and the scenario/s happening around. when u move & do ur forms, all these should have meaning towards culminating the fight. think of a circle- of being "one" with everything- urself, ur opponent, ur surroundings. anyone's who's worth his/her Silat will understand this easily... Salaam.
ehehe. sory friend. m used to usin' "d" in lieu of "the". its wat u call "text lingo" back here in Manila, the Philippines. much faster when m trying 2 'speak my mind' while typing, especially when ur trying to catch one's flow of thoughts. here's some of my fave abbreviations (er codes? =))for ur perusal: d -the ur -your w/ -with 2 -to m -am ...hope this helped; its just an out-of-d-box way of typing fast, ehehe...
Survival Peace to all, In my opinion, kembangan, tari, bunga, pelebat, etc are the embodiment of a pesilat's survival instinct. For example, when a pesilat moves to the ground, it could either mean or symbolizes; 1) evading an attack 2) getting something from the ground i.e. weapons, soil/dirt/sand or anything that lies there 3) to 'acah' or 'tipu' the opponent 4) getting the leverage needed for a 'gunting' technique using his/her legs 5) or any other types of attack/counterattack In Malaysia, there is one silat that originates from West Sumatra that calls itself Silat Randai Minang. They say that their origin of the 'randai' was due to a tiger that attacked a certain village. The villagers then devised a plan to ambush the tiger and made a human circle around it. They then circled the tiger and made certain prayers that eventually killed the tiger. This clearly shows the importance of the randai or any other flowing & artistic motion that exist in silat in the survival mindset of the people of Nusantara. Wow..i feel like a scholar! Again friends, this is just my opinion. Please correct any mistakes. Thanks. Peace
Please try not to use those because, as it says in the Terms of Service, its hard for some people to read.... Thanks 4.2 Language: MAP is an English speaking forum. Please take the time to post in plain, legible English. 4.2.1 This is not a mobile phone text service – you do not need to use abbreviations to reduce the length of your post. It makes it hard for ne1 not used 2 txt sp34k 2 read wot u r saying.
? WoW- are we talkng semantics here, English 101 or wat? got ur point but keep cool man- the way my narratives actually flow is basic "Queen's language". if i abbreviate, use a simpler, more direct way of posting messages, its still w/in the context of "plain, legible, understandable, conversational English"- regardless whether of the American or British persuasion. nothing unfathomable there- juz bein creative. & bein creative is free- RIGHT? unless u wana be some sort of 'English-language Gestapo' or what... then again, we're off topic. this is supposed to be a sharing of Silat ideas- not about English 101. I'd rather play w/ my beloved barong than discuss nonsensical stuff... enuff sed. Salaam
Hello soulguru, Welcome to MAP and contributing to this thread. Let's make this a productive discussion. You are right, let's be cool. I know we all can. Now back to the topic... What do you think about getting into the spirit? I hope this question is not impolite.
hello red- thanx 4 the welcome. lets have kofi agen. also, i got an invite to chinatown- maybe for practice or for demo; will tell u details some othertime. so wat do u mean by "getting into the spirit"? can u pls elaborate more?
Hello soulguru, So, was it through Silat magick that you knew my username? I don't remember telling you that. Hehehe. Never mind. Important thing is you are here. A naughty thing you just did back there. Poor Silatpupil, he was just doing his job as a Topic Moderator. The least you can do is re-read the terms of agreement. I am sure you meant no harm. Okay, let's just forget that whole thing before the moderator gets to read your previous posts. Hehehehe. That spirit thing I was asking. Well, some pesilat frown on getting the energy/force from the Universe if it was not overtly, clearly and specifically from the Creator. Some think we are into spirit possession. Hehehe. What do you think? Let me say a few things before you answer. This is really a tricky topic because it can easily escalate into a religous debate. One reason why I haven't raised this question till you came along. One person may look at a guy and see something wrong in what the other is doing. Who is wrong and who is right? It is hard to say. I have charismatic Catholics call on the Holy Spirit and when they sing in unintelligible tongues, writhe, sway, fall to the ground and do other strange movements, non-Catholics may think these guys were possesed by unclean spirits. I think a similar way of judging pesilat getting the spirit may also exist. Could you answer my question without us getting into a discussion involving religion?
Excuse and outside peeking in - but I've been becoming more and more intrigued by your art (as well as verbally crossing swords with SilatPupil ). I'm currently reading the 2nd of the 'Net Force' series by Tom Clancy. Silat plays a part in this series, and I'm guessing the author is either involved or has done some good research. The following is an extract from the 3rd book in the series - and seems relevant to this thread. It comes from a work of fiction, but I'd be interested in how accurate it is: Kembangan was the "flower dance" and, unlike forms or kata in most martial arts, was a spontaneous expression of a silat player's art, nothing prearranged. An expert never did the same form twice. Unlike buah, the full-speed and full-power dance, kembangan softened the moves, using the open hands more than fists, and turned the motions into a dance suitable for demonstrations, weddings, and social gatherings. If you really wanted to see how good a silat player was, you watched them do kembangan. In the old days, when a fight was imminent but the contestants didn't want to maim or kill each other, they would sometimes offer each other kembangan instead of actual combat. Experts could recognize who would have won the fight by the skill they displayed during the dance, and there would be no need to come to blows. If you were defeated in kembangan, you apologized or made right whatever the problem was, and that was that. It would be dishonorable to continue against an opponent of much lesser skill, and foolish to challege one who was obviously much better. ------------------------------------ The character then proceeds to demonstrate her 'dance', and puts a deliberate mistake in so that the class instructor would not 'lose face' (if he wasn't up to her standard). Very interesting reading. Here is hoping that this author is giving a good account of your art, and possibly getting other people interested. Pyung Ahn (Peace & Harmony)
I may be mistaken Jang Bong, but I believe the author of that novel "Net Force" was a MAP member at one time and used to post here.
The 'NetForce' series is written by a cat named Steve Perry (no, not the guy from Journey) and, as I understand it, he is very actively involved with Stevan Plinck's Pentjak Silat Serak group.
hi red, thanks for the kind words; guess i was bit harsh to silatpupil- my apologies then. i understnd he was only doin his job. anyway, back to your query: you are correct in trying to avoid issues that may involve religious uproar. as it is, some people are ultra-sensitive about it (fanatical to the extreme...). my belief is that it really depends on one's perception to that scenario, and how he/she is affected by it. people should know that we come from diverse cultural & religious backgounds, thus, what may be weird may actually be normal to some. above & foremost, openess is key to trying to fathom such a topic. warrior arts deal with death. thus the emphasis in trying to understand the so-called meaning of life- why it can be so fleeting to some, yet fulfilling to others. the operant word here is acceptance- that indeed death can & will always be part of combat- & life. doing so opens the doors to the question- is there a GOD? is there something out there, like a force above others? thus man's pursuit in trying to find answers to this concept. others then use religion as a belief mechanism to fill this void; others try to explain it as a universal energy permeating everything. my way of thinkng is its everything that one wants to believe in- and how one uses this belief or concept in tryin to redefine oneself as a warrior. thus spiritualism and trying to understand the metaphysical aspects of being a warrior in everysense- honing the physical, mental, religious/spiritual areas critical to being 'complete' in one's respective Warrior arts. some will say this is trying to find the "god-like qualities" inherent within us... or tapping into the infinite resources of another realm- the spirit world, so to speak... its gona take lotsa coffee for us to discuss this; i'm juz trying to 'encapsulate' this in a nutshell; hope this helps meantime...
right you are- every move a fighter does in kembangan shows how fluid, deadly and accurate he's capable of delivering his strikes: whether using empty hands or with his beloved blade... thus, one can determine a fighter's level also just by looking at his execution. as i pointed out in my previous post, this is where "oneness" is achieved by a fighter doin a kembangan prior to conflict- his mental, physical, spiritual attributes attuned to the scenario at hand: flowing yet anticipating, balancing the hard & soft, thinking yet not expecting... its understanding all the nuances that combat has to offer, yet accepting whatever fate will give: life or death; victory or defeat... point here is, you do what you have to do as a warrior- let the gods or fate decide the outcome- simply put... ...Kembangan was the "flower dance" and, unlike forms or kata in most martial arts, was a spontaneous expression of a silat player's art, nothing prearranged. An expert never did the same form twice. Unlike buah, the full-speed and full-power dance, kembangan softened the moves, using the open hands more than fists, and turned the motions into a dance suitable for demonstrations, weddings, and social gatherings. If you really wanted to see how good a silat player was, you watched them do kembangan. In the old days, when a fight was imminent but the contestants didn't want to maim or kill each other, they would sometimes offer each other kembangan instead of actual combat. Experts could recognize who would have won the fight by the skill they displayed during the dance, and there would be no need to come to blows. If you were defeated in kembangan, you apologized or made right whatever the problem was, and that was that. It would be dishonorable to continue against an opponent of much lesser skill, and foolish to challege one who was obviously much better. ------------------------------------ The character then proceeds to demonstrate her 'dance', and puts a deliberate mistake in so that the class instructor would not 'lose face' (if he wasn't up to her standard). Very interesting reading. Here is hoping that this author is giving a good account of your art, and possibly getting other people interested. Pyung Ahn (Peace & Harmony) [/QUOTE]
no kidding... Journey (the band) is one of my faves... surprising to see the name 'Steve Perry' mentioned here, ehehe...
