How does one make Deashi Harai a higher percentage technique?

I was wondering if anyone had any good ideas on how to make the move Deashi Harai a higher percentage technique? The timing must be exact, so I was wondering if there were any ways to get closer to the correct timing apart from a random shot in the dark? Such as movement to watch out for, or moving your opponent in such a way as to get you at least closer to the mark.

By the way, Deashi Harai is this move:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2nrFIWeT3E"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2nrFIWeT3E[/ame]

I noticed when searching for videos that some did the move instead of sweeping the foot completely perpendicular to the step, they seemed to sweep the ankle forward. I am interested in both techniques, but there is a distinction between the "ankle hook" and the perpendicular "foot slide/sweep."

 

I haven't seen the technique, I'm going to say "drill it more, test under pressure, drill it more, test it under pressure, drill it from a different set up, test THAT under pressure etc".

 

It's not deashi barai when you sweep the foot forward. It's more kosoto gari.

Deashi barai is a hard technique and it's all about good timing. It's not a shot in the dark, it's about understanding how the technique works, pre-empting your opponents movements and timing your sweep so you catch them at the right time.

 

Holyheadjch, thanks for the reply.

Deashi Barai = Deashi Harai?

Well, it would be nice if it's not a shot in the dark, although thats how it feels when I try it in sparring. Real hit-or-miss for me.
Would you be able to share any of the ideas of knowing when to go for the technique?

And I get the IDEA of when to go for it, but in sparring it can be hard to know if your opponent will step, how fast they will step, how far they will step and in the exact direction. If there were a way to bottleneck that, that could be good, but in my experience people generally have small steps which makes the window very brief to actually capitalize on it.

 

This is a good protocol generally. There is a tricky aspect of this technique, however, in particular. When your opponent steps forward, there is a brief moment when his balance is shifting from back to front foot, and as he is doing so you are supposed to kick out his advancing foot to break his balance (not exactly kicking out but close enough for explanation). This can also be done as he is retreating and shifting his balance backwards.

The tricky part that I (and I'm sure others) have found is that the window of opportunity to apply the technique is very small. This is made more difficult since you can't always predetermine where or how he is going to step, or even IF he is going to step. Though, there may be secrets to being able to have a better grasp of when this is going to happen, which is what I will find out on this thread hopefully.

Edit: Def. should try different setups though.

 

Yeah, just slightly different pronunciations.

Yeah, it's hard. You don't get many ippons from it, but it can be used to get a reaction from your opponent that you can use to set up something else.

Then set it up. Make a move that will encourage your opponent to step in a way you can predict. That's the game.

 

Here's some competition footage. You'll notice more often than not they've set it up with an upper body control (usually but not always elbow). There's plenty of videos on how to drill it, but often I like look at how something actually applied to give me a sense of where my drilling is going, and what I might be missing...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvWmNeSzs_Q"]æŸ”é“ JUDO - DE ASHI BARAI - JudoAttitude - YouTube[/ame]

 

Agree! But I would add a bit more. I assume we are talking about "how to set up general foot sweep or scoop kick here".

In order to encourage your opponent to step in, you can try the linear footwork as shown in those clips. But I think the circular footwork "wheeling step" may be better. The reason is simple, if your opponent steps in too fast, and also if your timing is off, your opponent's body weight may push you down backward. If you use "wheeling step" by moving yourself to be out of your opponent's moving path first, Even if your timing may be off, your opponent will not be able to run you down. Also you will give your opponent all the space that he will need to fall. When your opponent falls, he will fall at the spot that you were standing, and you will take over his original spot.

 

All very Judo isn't it?

I tend to think of these big sweeps with one leg as a Judo thing to do, rather than the more "battlefield" flavour of Jiu Jitsu where you'd aim for more personal stability?

That said, I loved the video posted by MaxSmith, and will have to go and have a play with that!



From a Jiu Jitsu perspective, I think I'd tend to stabilise the sweeping foot more so that it'll plant down and keep me on both feet, but aim to make the technique more powerful by driving an arm or elbow up under uke's chin, similar to Wally Jay's "Hook Foot Sweep" from SCJJ ?


G

 

Yeah, it IS a judo sweep, but it is also a Japanese JJ sweep as well as having it's origins there. I'd like to hear back on how it goes for on driving the elbow under the uke's chin, but I am not sure what you mean by keeping both feet planted. The throw is a foot sweep so one of your feet would have to come up enough to slide it along the ground, or am I missing something in what you wrote?

 

There are over 35 different foot sweeps that exist in the throwing art. It depends on different angles and different contact points. The foot sweep is a "leg skill" that you have to use

- one of your legs as your rooting leg,
- the other leg as your attacking leg.

If you try to leave both feet on the ground, that's scoop, block, and not sweep.

 

Wow, I didn't know that there were that many sweeps (or moves which are "sweep-ish" at least).

Do you have any websites which go over these throws? And yes, i do plan on doing a search, but you might already know of a good site.

 

I'm talking about the "throwing art in general" and not just Judo. I don't know any website that has those information. The principle of sweep is simple. You sweep your opponent's leg up while you pull his upper body down.

The way that you

- sweep your opponent's leg up can be from different angles such as front, side, behind, ... with different contact points such as instep, edge of your foot, bottom of your foot, ...
- pull your opponent's upper body down can be from upper collar, under hook, behind the neck, front belt, ....

Also the set up can be different. That's why it can come up over 35 different foot sweeps.

 

No you didn't miss anything.

My style - a self defence rooted kempo jiu jitsu style tries hard to avoid risk of going to ground and tends to adapt techniques accordingly. Also being a Kempo style, we like hitting people.

A good example is our interpretation of O Soto Gari, where instead of a leg sweep Judo style, we curl tori's calf around ukes with only the toes touching the ground, then the leg part of the throw is achieved by forcibly straightening tori's leg, finishing with the foot firmly planted on the ground. It is marginally less effective as a throw, but much better for keeping tori firmly on their feet.

The same technique, we generally would not push on uke's far shoulder, instead driving a straightening arm up under uke's throat to rotate the head back, which the rest of the body maturally follows.


I shall play with the same concepts with this throw, and see what we come up with. It may not work at-all, particularly as tori's leg is the other way around in this throw - but if you don't experiment, you don't learn !

G

 

Simply put, if you want to pull off deashi barai (or any number of foot sweeps), you need to have a better sense of balance and timing than your opponent. Even if you have flawless technique, if your opponent has a decade more experience you're not going to get it on them. This is why high belt grades get low belt grades with foot sweeps all the time - it's not because they practice foot sweeps all the time, it's because their sense of balance and timing is on a completely different level.

The other thing is that foot sweeps are done by feel, not by sight. By the time you've seen the opponent's foot move where you want, the opportunity is gone. So if you want to pull of deashi barai, do more randori, and keep trying it. Oh, and like others have said, you have to move your opponent if you want a shot at it, you can't wait for them to move where you want, odds are it won't happen and you'll spend the whole time doing nothing.

 

So you are talking about "knocking" that you

- swing your leg,
- the heel of your foot dig into the ground,
- stay there, and
- bounce your opponent's leg up.

I agree that this kind of "knocking" is used by many striking arts that believe with 2 feet on the ground is better than with just 1 foot on the ground.

 

Benkei, this is a bit belated, but really good post. The idea of increasing your inherent ability to pick things up, to FEEL the opponents energy and movements, seems to be a good way to go.

If you have to move your opponent to bottleneck knowing when he is going to step, would that make it less effective against a much larger opponent then, or is there generally a way to make someone step like with something very high leverage or painful?

:yeleyes: :Angel:

 

I find foot sweeps tend to get more effective against heavyweights, because there is so much weight being transferred with each step. You've just got to put your body into making them move. You know how you see judo players shaking of the gi in comps? You have to do that but also learn to use your legs and body rather than your arms, which aren't nearly as strong and will tire very quickly. At the end of the day you need to look at just getting a foot sweep, any foot sweep on your opponent, because you never know just how they are going to move or step. Don't get too hung up on deashi, use the full gamut of foot sweeps at the appropriate time and you'll improve.

 

Practise more, get them moving in predictable lines and then go for them, also work off how they will avoid the sweep and create your own combinations/pathways.

 

Small footsweeps are both a very judo and jujutsu thing, and as such rooted to reality.
However what you call battlefield jiujitsu is your idea of what other people may have done and as such isnt rooted to reality in as much as fantasy.