How do you practice/teach sparring?

He is the "Greatest JKD stylist no-one has heard of" in my opinion

The single best seminar I ever attended was a Mcfann one in Hull WAY back in the day. His book "Ground Fighting" is my go-to book when i have to teach beginners

Marc is the effin man!

 

So it's kind of like checking out girls?

Thanks for the video's.
It's weird because i learnt a technique like guiding the attack hand (in the Hu-bad video) in Judo and it stuck with me more than anything.
its interesting because ive use it quite a bit to prevent a clinch and take the back while standing but other grapplers dont seem to use it as much.

So im guessing "Pummelling" in grappling is a close range energy drill?

 

Yep! Same as the thai clinch drill. It is about giving experience in reference positions (like practicing golf swings)

 

BTW that video of Hu-bad changed my understanding of distance.

 

the trapping distance is a range that seems ideal for joint locks. i see how this can help with KS/HKD locks in a true self defense scenario.

however, how is hubud&dumog different from silat? even the youtube wing chun chi sao stuff looks similar.

 

Hubud is a drilling method not an art in and of itself - I used to refer to it as the "ring binder" out of which any technique can flow - the difference is that it is out of movement and hence more "alive"

Dumog is an almost generic term for grappling - tend to use it as a way of body manipulation (or getting a body from point A to point B with the least effort imaginable). My reading uses "choke" points to effect this. It is probably not unique per se, but in my line of work it is immesurably useful both for efficiency and the lack on injury caused to the subjects

 

i used to do similar things in muay thai for clinch work and moving into clinch.

2 arms and 2 legs makes everyone culture develop similar techniques

 

I thought this^ could bear repeating.

I don't think that either of us are 'hard men' despite being somewhat stubborn in our views, and this goes for a few others who post on here who also hold fast to certain beliefs... It's because we've seen certain skills work in actual situations, and we're not simply throwing some theoretical BS into our training drills just for the hell of it.





And sorry for retracing my steps here but I'm also unsure if I made myself clear about the chin vs. neck debate, so I'll recap some things I failed to mention earlier. I didn't stress the fact that I was talking about hooks and such. If delivered to the chin (i.e. the point of the jaw), the resulting pivot or turning of the head absorbs much of the force thus diminishing the coup/contrecoup trauma. However when a hook, roundhouse, or cross is aimed at the angle of the jaw, if the glove doesn't actually overlap onto the neck, much of the force is channeled into the neck in the same area where a deliberate strike to the neck would be placed if wanting to effect the KO via the tactic of targeting the baroreceptor reflex & the autonomic nervous system.

Straight line punches delivered to the chin, such as lunging jabs or the MA variant of a cross (which makes use of the power in the rear hand but doesn't crossover the midline as much), not to mention uppercuts, will of course cause a whiplash-like snapping of the head if landed with sufficient force. If using a hook or roundhouse and wanting to KO my opponent by relying on the coup/contrecoup effect, I'd most likely target the temple than the jaw. Fighters usually clench their jaw to eliminate the risk of TMJ injury, and so the force of any blows to the angle of the jaw will be transferred to the neck (i.e. a KO will be due to the baroreceptor reflex, not coup/contrecoup). Someone who doesn't know to clench their jaw, will most likely incur TMJ injury, but in so doing will dissipate the brunt of the blow from rattling their brains.

This is my own belief, but based off an experiment I conducted during a period of about 2 or 3 years where I avidly watched a lot of boxing & kickboxing bouts on ESPN. In the slow-mo replay of a KO, you could always see the eyes of the guy roll back in his head, whenever the *stray* punch landed on the side of the neck (even if only quasi-landing there, having overlapped the angle of the jaw due to a low entry angle). Usually it was mixed in with a full-blown flurry, but also evident in shorter bursts of consecutive punching.

Of course if you want to disagree, Pugil, that's fine by me.

 

Well, apart from a couple of temple shots...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFt_k-8yTIg&feature=fvst"]Mike Tyson's Top 10 Best 1 Punch KO's - YouTube[/ame]

 

Actually, this video is much better, and at the end of the day, it's all about trying to keep your guard up to protect yourself at all times. As Freddie Roach says, ‎"Every time you throw a punch, you make an opening for your opponent":

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_CWZL4Z_gc"]Brutal Boxing Knockouts!! - YouTube[/ame]

 

For the sake of brevity, I’ll be using C/CC for “Coup/ContreCoup” and BRR for “BaroReceptor Reflex".

When someone (like me) tells you (Pugil) that glancing blows to the chin are more likely to have the power dissipated by the turning of the head to such a degree that the C/CC may not cause unconsciousness, it of course makes perfect sense to go looking at perhaps one of the most powerful hitters the world of boxing has ever known (not!). But no matter, as I know full well I didn’t say that blows delivered to the chin at such an angle could NEVER produce a KO, I merely stated that most KO’s can be attributed to other factors. But even after reviewing that M. Tyson video, I still didn’t see any instances of a knockdown or KO being attributed to the chin being clipped at an angle. However I did notice something which didn’t occur to me previously, and therefore I must mention it now. Many boxers naturally keep their chin tucked in, and if you point your chin down and then push it straight back with your hand, you can feel pressure in your inner ear on both sides (at least I can when doing this). So it’s quite possible that when hit squarely on the chin, and it’s not in the manner of an uppercut which would cause the head to whiplash, that rather than a KO being caused by C/CC, that it’s possibly due to the BRR instead (the force being transmitted along both ends of the jaw).


KO hits to the nose, cheek, and temple, will all be a result of C/CC. What makes temple shots so dangerous, is that the middle meningeal artery can be ruptured thus causing edema of the brain (a lethal condition if the pressure isn’t alleviated in short order). Aiming for the apex of the jaw (i.e. the chin) would be an attempt to either rock the head back sharply (i.e. C/CC) or possibly to deliver force along the jaw (as described in the preceding paragraph) in order to traumatize the VCJ plexus (VCJ = Vagus nerve, Carotid artery, Jugular vein). An angled blow to the chin would need to be executed *perfectly* in order for the force to sufficiently affect just one side, simply because the TMJ (temporomandibular joint) isn’t very stable. But note that it IS possible. Due to the size of the glove, hits which land near the base of the ear (i.e. the angle of the jaw) are more likely to cause a KO from the force absorbed by the CVJ plexus (i.e. BRR). When reviewing video footage of various KO’s, I look at 3 basic things to determine what may have caused the KO:

1) the angle at which the blow is delivered
2) which anatomical structures receive the brunt of the impact
3) whether or not the victim’s head moves rapidly after being struck


Here’s my rundown from that Mike Tyson clip:
10: left hook to the cheek - C/CC
9: left hook to the nose - C/CC
8: right hook to the angle of the jaw - BRR (very little head snap is evident)
7: left hook to the angle of the jaw - BRR
6: left hook to the angle of the jaw - BRR
5: right hook to the temple - C/CC
4: left hook to the chin - BRR (very little head snap is evident) // NOTE: Tyson swings wide & his opponent turns to look, thus catching the blow square on the chin
3: left cross to the cheek/nose - C/CC
2: right cross to the chin - C/CC // NOTE: very little head snap is evident so it may be as described above and due to BRR instead, as Tyson’s delivery does come in straight and the punch slides downward hitting the guy in the sternum
1: right cross to the nose - C/CC

In some footage of a KO at the very beginning of the video, which oddly isn’t included in this “top 10” list (it’s just prior to the countdown), Tyson can be seen polishing off some guy in the corner who’s up against the ropes, with an obvious right uppercut (C/CC).

I only looked through about half of that other video (toggling back & forth from slow-motion to full speed is so darn tedious), but there’s nothing in it to support your claim that boxers “go for the jaw” the majority of the time, as many of the KO’s were from hits to the temple, cheek, and nose. Of the ones I did look at closely, none were due to knocking the jaw out of whack with an angled/glancing blow, however I did see more than one instance where there was definite overlap of the strike onto the neck, where it was plainly obvious that the angle of the jaw was targeted.


NOTE: Okay, so I felt bad about not looking at the entire video, and lo & behold, at 4:25 a guy gets KO’d by a glancing blow to the chin. However it should be pointed out that the guy delivering the blow is leaping at him and both of his feet are off the ground when he makes contact. I also noticed that several of the KO’s which follow this one are made where the glove lands on the neck near the base of the ear, FWIW.

 

I thanked you for taking the time to watch both video clips all the way through, and for your patience in breaking everything down – I didn't bother to do either. I think we should simply agree to disagree on this one. I truly believe in the strike to the jaw, you don't, nuff said! I will leave you with this video to look at and listen to when you have a few spare minutes. Not to comment on, just for enjoyment:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5R1JvEDfnU"]Roach's Fundamentals of Boxing 4 - YouTube[/ame]

He has Alzheimer's by the way, and before you comment on his speech. His other video clips are also worth watching – especially the one on footwork

 

Before I watch the video you provided in post #112, I just want to say, Pugil, that I never meant to imply that aiming for the jaw is a lousy idea or that it should be avoided. I merely tried to explain that hitting the jaw (especially the apex of the jaw) in such a way that you move the chin towards one shoulder or another (i.e. an angled or glancing blow) as opposed to hitting it more squarely so the force of the blow gets transferred into the neck & head, that the subsequent rotation of the head is likely to absorb enough of the power transmitted from the punch, and is therefore less likely to cause a KO. Obviously (as supported by the video evidence) when this type of punch is done with sufficient force, one CAN be successful in knocking out your opponent (or at least making him tipsy).

So if it's all the same to you, I'll ignore your plea to "agree to disagree" since I don't think we actually do. Since *turtling the head* is a common practice among boxers, aiming for the angle of the jaw (near the base of the ear) is essentially the same thing as prescribing a blow to the VCJ plexus (and as seen in KO #2 from that Tyson video, square hits to the chin can also affect the VCJ plexus if turtled up, AND what's more, it does it on both sides!). Anyway, you yourself, has mentioned how before the rule which enforced the wearing of protective gloves was adopted, that many boxers retired due to damage to their hands. So from a S/D perspective, why balk about learning a different way to cause a KO other than *bashing in their skull* (i.e. not via C/CC)? Knowing about the BRR gives you the option of using your forearm (via a brachial thump) to KO your adversary without worrying about messing up your hands.

Don't make me resort to showing the "pimp knockout" video, cuz you know I have no qualms about doing that if I need to (hehe).






EDIT:

Well, I watched that Freddie Roach clip and all I have to say is that when it comes to tips on boxing, the "Title Boxing" video series has you covered:

 

You ought to anyways unknown if its the one I think it is, its always entertaining

 

this is a great format! effective, fun, and internationally recognized way to integrate many of our techniques in a competition!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l71pjVU4II&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Kung Fu Sanda Sanshou - YouTube[/ame]