Just a thought, we know that the history and lineage of the ninjutsu/ninpo only schools is less than proven, but are happy to counter this with the argument that ninjutsu training is included in other Ryu that do have proven history and lineage - correct? How are we classifying this as ninjutsu though? Is it as simple as saying, 'this school included x training, therefore contains ninjutsu? If this is the logic used could the same argument be made wherever 'ninja' type training is found? If not how can we apply this logic as above? Is it purely on the basis of it being a Japanese Ryu, and any espionage, disguise, etc style training conducted by The Japanese must be ninjutsu? Interested to hear thoughts?