I'm actually studying in the methods and techniques of energy transferrence... it's all very real. For the record, blood-drinkers are referred to as 'Sanguinarians', while all the other Vampyres are 'Psychic Vampires'. Should anyone actually care, I encourage you to pick of a copy of The Psychic Vampyre (it may be spelled Vampire) Codex.
it not really using there enegry but using there force againts them. for instacne when they punch as hard as they can theve got so much momentom going forword so it is a lot easer to get them down its all redirecting- liek if any one ahs ever seen twin warriors when he learns tai chi and uses all the punches and kicks aginst them
Method A: To borrow someones energy you need a set of jumper cables and a car battery. You just walk up to people and ask them "Mind if I attach these to you?" Method B: Ask people in your vicinity to do tasks you could easily do on your own. For example: "Hey could you hand me that candy bar?" "Could you throw this wrapper in the trash for me?" This is sometimes called being married.
Can you expand on this point a little? Like what happens when you do that, what position you're in and stuff? I am familiar with peng, but in a slightly different way.... :Angel:
We are taught Ting Jin, Hua Jin and Fa Jin. Ting Jin is listening for force, deals with feeling what your opponent is going to do at the earlist possible stage. Hua Jin is redirecting force. Meaning to change or to transform. Can be understood as a force used to divert, or to divert a force. Fa Jin, well I think you all know what that is. Fa meaning to shoot an arrow; issuing force to your opponent.
Both partners are in bow stance and 'ji' with the hands clasped but gripping over the thumb, with the back of the forward hand pressing against the partner's. A pushes to B's centre and B 'borrows' the energy from A's push, keeping the arms in position but using the energy to soften down the midline, hollow the chest, loosen the waist, letting it flood the thighs, bypassing the knee down to the arch of the foot. To return it, loosen the thigh (pumping the foot) and allow it to return to A. There is obviously a lot more to it and many variations are used in Hong Kong, Ma Lee Yang will 'play' at various pushing hands and then use the technique to 'throw' the student against a wall (who has to use a 'standing breakfall' to prevent injury).
Taijhi, this has been bugging me since you wrote it lol. question lol. How can someone use the energy to hurt themselves when it's technique what gets them there lol. It's got nothing to do with borrowing energy from your apponent. If your in a pushing hands situation then wouldn't you have to read their moves by seeing where they are coming from and not just depend on the energy as you can get a wrong reading and end up making mistakes. lisa xx
Next time you push hands try closing your eyes, we do it quite a bit. The visual helps, but ideally you want to be able to feel what the other person is doing. You need you eyes if you are not connected, ie intercepting a punch, but if you are connected then you can react quicker. Drives home the point of staying connected.
They don't - it's usually the ground or objects in the way or the returning blow from your body part that hurts them... they just provide the power behind it and you redirect it I beg to differ. It has everything to do with borrowing energy from the opponent imo - but you must be sung and yield first This is how Taijiquan enables even the old and weakening to overpower a younger physically fitter opponent (theoretically - I'm not old enough to prove that one yet lol ) I agree with Brido on this. Sight gets more in the way for this kind of work at first. You have to learn how to use your eyes... and in combination with more subtle senses (Like the blindfolded work we do sometimes) This is where the meditative aspect and Tao stuff becomes useful: Seeing - thinking - doing (external ma? or at least a staggered or scattered energy process anyway...) versus sensefeelflow or even flowwithandovercomewithnoeffort lol (wu wei = doing by not doing iow) If you take this approach there are no "mistakes" only progressions, eventualities, opportunities, happenings.... and mullerings LOL :Angel:
OK lol, I've had a go at pushing hands by closing my eyes and you can still know where your partner is going to strike next without having to depend on energy alone. You just know with how their body moves and you can feel that way without having to say it's "borrowing someone's energy". It's alright saying you need to connect with their energy but when you see how their body is moving them you just go for it if you see an opening. lisaxx
You knew that I'd be replying didn't you lol,anyway I do agree with you on a couple of points lol. If the energy is important to pushing hands then why can some people get away with not yielding to the partners wishes lol . What would be used to counter this and how, seeing that sometimes we don't play the game within the rules. I do agree with you a little bit on the sight as you can use other senses you have lol. I still think that you can feel more when your pushing hands and your feeling for the mistakes within the limbs as you don't need to see to find what the next move is as they always make mistakes no matter how they try and disguise it lol. It isn't anything special it's just part of the training some of us have had in the past lol. I wonder what you would call it if they had a name in energy terms, I admit I don't know enough of the energy side of tai chi and I'm open to learn but I can't see how it really can be done. It's easier said than done in some aspects of tai chi with the energy and I realise I have a long way to go and even Rome wasn't built in a day so I haven't lost hope just yet lol. lisa xx
A.) It doesn't work like that really B.) Some people are just too kind to take advantage of an EMA loser who can't let go LOL There are no rules, only self-imposed boundaries and basic respect for training as opposed to genuine conflict. This is the primary EMA/IMA division imo I fight completely differently to how I train btw (in an external sense). But I train to develop specific aspects of my fighting in a safe and controlled context. Winning and losing are not concepts I am interested in while training. They are fighting concepts and belong in a fighting context imo :bang: Rules only exist in the mind - including the 'physical' nature of martial arts practice imo. You can only experience this through long (focussed / 'hard'[?] lol) training... You have to let go of the ego aspect to acheive true IMA imo.... (Ducks and runs for cover...... ) :Angel:
That's one way to do it, but everyone pushes different. Personally, I don't think it is the best way. Some people do just fly in for the push, and unless you are to a quite high level, you are going to get pushed over. It gets me about 50/50 of the time when people do it to me, sometimes I deflect it, many a time I don't. What saves me from this method much of the time is that I am around 274 pounds - these people usually do it against people their own size and weight, different story on a big lad like me. If you stay soft and connected and try to read the other persons moves, then you will have much more success. Eventually. It is a much more difficult route, and you will lose most of the times, I do a lot, but I don't care. I don't go to Tai Chi Chuan to win, nor to take the easy route. There is a woman in class of 60 odd years, who weighs all of 100 lbs, and she has learned to destroy my balance. At the start she was wobbling everywhere, but I told her what was working against me, what other people were doing to overbalance me and she started trying them out. Seems to be working now, I try a wee push to see what I get and can find myself off balance. If she just saw an opening and trying to push of pull me to it she would get nowhere, but she stuck with it, trying things out and can get a guy well over twice her weight and young enough to be her grandson (almost!) staggering to keep his balance. I would suggest just stick with it, they are easier ways to win, but they are inferior at the end of the day, and you will get so much more out of your Tai Chi is you practise your sensitivity. I could easier throw my wieght about, and I will when the situation calls for it, but I go to Taiji to reject brute force. As the old saying goes "Invest in loss". Don't play to win, play to develop you skills. You will find winning comes to you then.
I agree with everything you just said, but...... For me the tai chi comes together when you use it under force. It's easy to stay soft and connected and aware when there's not much pressure on you. It's when you meet intelligent force with intellegent force and still manage to misdirect them into their void using only 4 taels/ a nudge, that it's really tai chi and you're using both yin and yang dynamically. Still, it's hard to do this with grannies.
Taiji, You knew I'd reply lol, A bit yeah right to you on the too kind to take advantage lol You have just lost on your own terms with your own words, it's not a power trip with external and internal MA lol. Look we already know the difference between the two and we can use both in tai chi. I may have a problem letting go at times but that comes with how my training has come into play I suppose lol. Don't get me started on rules, I thought they were meant to be broken lol. What ego, I thought it was just men who had this problem lol. The internal is a bit hard for some external students as we have to unlearn some of the ways which we've been taught in the past. I do get fustrated at times and have a tantrum but I always go back and have another go until I get it right again lol. I'm not a quitter and don't intend to be one now lol. lisa xx
Yeah, but I was talking within the context of pushing hands. Personally I don't think effort it worth it. In Judo I here people shouting in effort trying to get a throw in - they may throw them but they are panting afterwards, they are ****ed. I take my tai chi to Judo and Jujitsu, at least the concepts. Sometimes I go in for a throw if I get an opening, but I don't carry on if it is not there, I don't try and labour it. Never got a throw yet, athough I haven't admittedly been going long. I can take down plenty of the black belts, usually going with the force. Not bragging or nothing, but I have developed some sensitivity and I can send them rolling without even sweeping, just feeling the movement and swinging them round when I feel it happening. No effort on my part. Got to remain very relaxed, you can tell when someone is tense, and it makes it easier. Groundwork is where I get eaten alive I suppose this isn't what you were really saying, but I thought I would say it anyway. To me I don't understand softness and being limp and weak, but being relaxed and going with the flow.
