Hi Ninzen, Welcome to MAP. Nice first post there - I guess if you have registered just to have a pop at HNIR I guess you are an Agenda Troll: Mr Delaney pretty much summed up my feelings on this matter, so I don't have a lot to add, other than to ask why you are so interested? I guess you are here for a purpose and have some agenda...? If not, you are stirring up more bad feeling towards the Hoshin guys and Mr Glimme rather than letting this issue lie. The practitioners of HNIR kenjutsu are under no illusion as to where the Hoshin sword syllabus came from as the techniques are obviously lifted from Niten Ichi Ryu, and threads like this serve to point out the obvious to the unknowing. If your knowledge of MA (and koryu bujutsu in particular) only extends to 'bottles thrown at your head', then I need not continue this dialogue with you.
I have often wondered you you manage to secure your blade under the coat, I there's never a saya in sight! Do you need sone kind of retractable blade?
EDIT: Deleting my post It seems that the Hoshin Ryu website makes no direct claim about Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu, just sells DVDs with the kata on them. I certainly don't approve, but if they don't claim it's Niten Ichi Ryu, and if they're forward about this being their interpretation based on no training in the style at all, then I'm not about to contradict that. Of course, I haven't bought or seen the videos, so I don't know what it is they say about their style. But I can't find much issue with the website, apart from them being mute as to where their training in those techniques came from.
Splice, Au contraire. Mr Glimme has formulated his DVD techniques from the training he received in HNIR (apparently) from Hatsumi sensei. It IS HNIR in all but name. Your original post was correct. Removing the name doesn't change a thing.
He's very lucky if he did! No one else seems to have done any HNIR via the Bujinkan. Did he ever provide any back up for that?
Why do people feel the urge to start their own schools. I would think that it can only be if what they develop is superior. I have been training for more than forty years. If anyone is waiting for MY version. Don't hold your breath!! koyo
It's a hard call to make. If he doesn't claim to teach HNIR, doesn't issue rank in it, but simply teaches kata he stole from the style, well I'm ambivalent about it. I certainly don't agree with his actions. But as far as his claims, there really is nothing to correct, except that we should let people know the difference between koryu and "I teach what I saw on videos". However I think this should be made clear on the Hoshin ryu website. I'm not too happy with the text there right now, but at least it doesn't refer directly to Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu. In that, I feel it's at least better than George Alexander's videos. It's still wrong, of course. But perhaps people who can't establish that for themselves are better served by abdicating their reasoning to someone with a more powerful persona. It certainly makes finding a teacher simpler.
True, Sebastien - but what can you do? If people don't call others on statements they make the MA world will implode with claims from everyone. I agree that he should make clear his knowledge of Musashi's art - but then again, would you post on your website that you learned from: ?? I certainly wouldn't...! Nope. Just that Hatsumi-s holds densho from HNIR. This was told me by Mr Glimme (who was told by Mr Morris, a now-unverifiable source) and not a claim made by Hatsumi-s or any of his students.
Just to add to this; A friend of mine who is a senior student in the Bujinkan. Someone who I have known for a good number of years and who I have had the pleasure of drinking with a few times in Tokyo, has told me that the claim about Mr. Glimme being taught HNIR by Mr. Hatsumi is completely and utterly false. Apparently, Mr. Hatsumi is very angry at all that has transpired. The term used was "Angry as a wet hen" If this is the case, someone's going to get an invite to the budo delicatessen that only sells one type of sandwich - Hamon rye!
Then it becomes apparent that you don't understand the purpose of kata. Perhaps it doesn't fly with those who are too attached to their particular style, but not to someone who is trying to find what works. So, if I were to buy a DVD of Micheal Jordan teaching basketball and learn how to play the game, make it to the NBA, and then do my own videos based on my own experience that I'm basicly plagarising Micheal Jordan? Really? How are you going to handle someone trying to hack you to death with a machette? As I'm sure there is. The zombie comment isn't made toward the system, rather those people within the system who are too attached to it as it is, rather than try to go beyond it.
Not true. Kata teach principles regarding body movement, mindset and behavior patterns. With that said, each ryuha have individual teaching methods, postures (and assuming postures), methods of walking, holding the weapon. It's pretty much the same as someone you have never met in your entire life come to a family reunion and claim to be a relative, except he doesn't know what the mindset or ethnic background of the family is. However, it is apparent that Mr. Glimme doesn't know budo reigi. This isn't JKD, where you can magpie certain elements from different systems. Copying the format shown on the BAB Nihon No Kobudo HNIR series, regurgitating it badly and selling it for a quick buck is hardly the purpose of kata either. It has already been established that Mr. Hatsumi didn't teach these techniques to Mr. Glimme from a very reliable source. There is also the fact that he was shunned by the rest of the Sugawara Katori Shinto-ryu group after he printed flyers for his classes, incorporating Bujinkan waza into Katori Shinto-ryu and claiming to be one of the best swordsmen in the Northern United States. This upset his seniors in the Suguwara institute, and they talked to him about it. They offered him a chance to correct his standing in the ryu and to keep training. Mr Glimme walked away from five years or so in the school and ran into the arms of the Hoshin Ryu. The bottom line is that Mr Glimme has a long history in this area for misrepresenting himself and his talents. Well go do a system that does work. Plenty out there to choose from. Muay Thai, JKD, FMA, Kendo, etc, etc. Again, bad analogy. This illustrates you have absolutely no idea how training or teaching methods are conducted in koryu.
This is bad. Everyone needs to remember that Soke doesn't need us. We should do our best to keep good, happy thoughts in his mind when he thinks about teaching us. There's going to be a lot of ****ed off people if a few wack-jobs blow it for the rest of us.
Um, that's exactly what I just said. Sure, each ryuha will have it's individual flavor. I would say something about how you can combine different individual flavors in cooking and create something new and wonderful, but I'm sure you'd just say it was another bad analogy. Ah, but does that mean they are not part of the family? Does that mean their experiences are invalid? Niten Ichi Ryu is most certainly not JKD. However, I believe Mr. Glimme was not claiming to teach Niten Ichi Ryu, as I'm sure we are all in agreement. If he has created belt levels for what he is teaching, then why do you care, as long as he's not claiming to teach Niten Ichi Ryu? Not really. What we have is you saying you have a source within the Bujinkan. That hardly qualifies as establishing Mr. Hatsumi's position on the matter. If he claims to be one of the best and anyone disagrees they should challenge him to a duel, otherwise we can sit here and argue the matter indefinitely. As for his issues with his former ryu, sounds like they too are too stuck on themselves. I'd walk away from them as well if their mindsets are that inflexable. From some people's perspectives, yes. I see someone who has the courage to look past the dogma of a system and reach for the actual substance and try to improve himself and his abilities. And where did those systems originate? Out of the blue? No, they were developed by multiple people over many years of personal exploration about what worked for them and what didn't. Why can I not do the same? I never claimed to have any idea of how training or teaching methods are conducted in koryu. What I'm saying is there are only so many ways to move a human body. Mindsets are a lot more varied, but they are within the realm of human experience, so anyone has access to them if they put in the time and effort to research them. To me, it boils down to some members of Niten Ichi Ryu seem to think they have exclusive claims on certain body movements and mindsets. This seems completely absurd to me.
Sorry I'm going to have to step away from this for a while now! That comment being directed at Kogusoku is just too funny, my sides can't cope.
There are also various other Bujinkan members both on this board and e-budo who have stated that they have never seen HNIR taught or know of any reference to it in the Bujinkan, this includes people living and training in Japan! I think the general consenus is that Mr Glimme is talking rubbish in this regard. Shame he's not around to clarify this As for Kogusoku's word well he is a well respected member of this and other boards and has proven he "knows his stuff", so to speak, time and time again. That on top of the fact that people know he's lived and trained in Japan for a number of years sort of speaks for itself. So on one hand we have a known proven entity saying something and on the other a mysterious new member who has just happened to make his first posts on this thread....
One big, huge problems with "finding what works" and "try to go beyond it" is the fact that we don't fight with swords anymore. So there is no testing of what works, there is no improvement to be made, and we don't study sword arts with the goal of learning how to fight with swords. You're welcome to have your opinion, but I won't put any stock into someone who thinks he is "going beyond" what he learned, yet has no way to apply and test his assumptions. We preserve what come before. We don't improve upon it. That's the nature of our art. You may call us zombies for doing that if you like, but in return I will call you deluded, because that's certainly what you are if you think you're improving on sword techniques in your practice, yet have never been in a sword fight and never killed anyone.
Because people who had bad techniques and stupid ideas died from trying them out, and those who had good techniques and good ideas survived. We don't do that anymore. You don't get to test or apply any of your knowledge. I know that for some it's hard to understand the difference between making up things in your head and reasoning them out, basing your evaluation of them on logic, and actually using those techniques in a real battle and either dying or living to pass them on. However, there really is a difference, and no argument will convince me otherwise. Once you start living in the feudal era and surviving because of your skills, maybe I will give your opinion in "improving" existing arts to have some credence. However, until then it's all opinion, and the opinion of someone who has never been in a swordfight of what a functional sword art is not something I'm interested in.
We see similar things in Western sword practice. While the sword was being used in a combative fashion in life and death encounters, the techniques used per weapon type stayed virtually the same. When fencing became primarily a sporting art as opposed to a martial one, things started to change drastically, as one's life was no longer on the line. A comparison of historical medieval and renaissance manuals and modern sport fencing techniques illustrate this effectively. The principles of swordsmanship for combat have not, and could not have changed since ancient times. Best regards, -Mark
Hehe awesome. I guess you haven't met Kogusoku then... Guys, I am thinking of building a new car in my garage. I am going to make it just like the Ford Mustang, 'cos I really like that shape & style. Do you think Ford will mind if I copy their design identically, providing I don't put a Ford badge on it?
