Oh really.. Why is it so hard to understand that your school is deeply in the wrong?Nothing about taking techniques from one school and claiming them as you own "martial genius" is good..What your leaders did was take techniques seen on film, strip them of all life and meaning and then sell them back to people because they are Koryu..You play on that fact to sell the tapes and when it gets noticed and complained about you carry on...Great indications of a school of high values.. This is bringing Hoshin Ryu so low it makes me laugh..You steal techiques, lie about where they came from, continue to sell them, and think all is fine.. Great...Good principles for students to learn right Jen?
Sorry, but no. Again that particle of feces will not fly. Your rationale does not justify theft and plagarism. The kata belong to the ryuha, yes they are out on video and maybe on the internet. That does not entitle every Tom, Dick and Harry to plagarise them. They are published for cultural preservation and promogulation. To develop interest in koryu, not to have a bunch of wannabe's steal them. Like hell it's a scapegoat. It's complete and utter impropriety, not to mention theft. BAD MANNERS If this had been a dyed in the wool, pugilistic CMA family that your organisation had stolen and plagarised from from, someone very high ranking would have flown over to clean your headmaster's clock by now. Can anyone say dojo yaburi?*This is not a threat, please do not construe it as such, this is a wake-up call.* Maniwa Nen-ryu, another koryu in the Kanto area of Japan had a similar problem about 80 years ago. A certain film company decided to use the ryuha's name in the film and portray all members of the ryuha as being a bunch of thuggish, violent crooks. Maniwa Nen-ryu caught wind of this and went down there, dojo yaburi style. The whole dojo! The producer, filled his fundoshi and did dogeza (A very serious formal apology) for not conferring or referring with the ryuha first and arranged a whole script change and reshoot. What does Budo begin and end with everybody? REIGI! 礼儀 (Manners and propriety)
Sadly, this really brings Hoshin's lack of fully-realized/developed curriculum to light. Jack of all trades master of none, seems to be the way of these 'tatsujin'. Why not develop yourself using the methods that hundreds of others have used over scores of years? Yes, it does take a long time. Instead, you take the smorgasbord approach. ...study a little bit of that (yet don't understand it), and a little of this (yet don't understand it), and add to it a little bit of this other thing (which I haven't been around enough to understand) and voila! Crap stew. Perhaps someone should have a good depth of sword knowledge (and etiquette) to plumb before 'developing' something else to add to the curriculum. It seems the person in question didn't develop anything, rather just stole it.
This post is likeley to be inflamatory in certain quarters. OK, very. We're clearly not going to see eye to eye on the whole who has what rights vs law matter, so I'm personally dropping my participation in that part of the discussion. Talk to Hoshin Hombu if you want any more on this. Gord-soke's dojo address and training times are on the website if anyone feels the need to turn up on his doorstep. (URL below, groups, Hoshin Shugyo Dojo) So, to digress slightly. I still think it's amusing that the HNIR guys on here aspire to such high moral standards which (again, correct me if I'm wrong) are based on mediaeval feudal values, yes? And expect modern westerners to abide by them. When in fact, their founder, Musashi-sensei, (whom they clearly revere to the point of sainthood), was viewed as no kind of gentleman at all by his comtemporaries and peers. He was a scruffy ronin, who didn't bathe by all accounts (quelle horreur!) more like an indian Sadhu than a samurai, and frequently used "underhand" methods to win his duels in a most ungentlemanly manner. I mean, what kind of guy would turn up late to a duel against a kid, forget his sword and not even go through the formalities before charging out of the sun with a boat oar to strike down his challenger without warning? Someone who wanted to win at all costs and damn honour, that is who. Yet he is considered a sword saint, kensai I think the term is. What a seeming contradicition. No, if you HNIR folks are going to accuse Hoshin of acting improperly, and ungentlemanly conduct, you can wake up and see what kind of guy you are following. Because, maybe, just maybe, we are acting more in the spirit of Musashi sensei than you are. Let me explain that seemingly very strange statement. It's about winning. I'ts about preserving your life. Honour is a great concept, but in the real world, the guy with a knife in an alley has no honour, the carjacker has no honour, the mugger has no honour. Morality is nice, but survival is more important... yes, that is a very un-japanese attitude. We like to think of it as realism. Musashi applied this. I am happy for any of my fellow Hoshinka to read this thread, maybe they can think for themselves outside the box a little more and survive a little better. They can make their own minds up. I am not using the above to justify what has happened with the DVDs, just to try and get a little perspective on how you expect us to behave. You are trying to impose your values on Hoshin. What is important in Hoshinjutsu is teaching people to protect themselves. Once you can survive, then you satrt working on moral character, which I agree wholeheartedly is very important. But again I say, as far as the Hoshin leadership is concerned, nothing illegal according to US law has occoured. We are not Koryu, don't expect us to behave by some Japanese feudal law and then cite examples of it at us as proof of how the Hoshinroshiryu should behave. Oh and as for the comment on tatsujin, one does not have to have perfect morals nor abstain from certain practices to achieve that, it's a myth perpetuated by the yogic and buddhist traditions. It's just about seeing the universe as it really is. And it's a hellhole. Our founder, Dr. Morris, was described by Hatsumi-sensei as "the buddha from hell". Read into that what you will. That's all I have to say on the subject. I have lots to do for christmas. See you all in the new year. Happy Holidays, Jen.
If decency, honesty and correct practise are values held only by the Niten Ichi-ryu I'm heading down to Kyushu next week.. Jen, your school teaches things that have been stolen, teaches them badly, doesn't care about doing so, and defends itself by pointing at an image from a movie...That's really no answer at all.. People will make up their own minds of course...Your students will continue to practise lifeless arts that mean nothing because they are detached from the source and good luck to them.. None of your answers have been enough to excuse your school..None of your answers have contained an apology either..Good for you.
Jen, The kenjutsu of HNIR are no secret, just as the basic forms of TSKSR can be found on the web/video etc. Does HNIR/TSKSR/MJER blah blah bother if someone downloads videos and has a go at them? probably not. If that same person stands up and starts teaching for financial/ego gain then it becomes a problem. Your Mr Glimme has not studied Musashi's writings and formulated his own techniques (as he previously claimed), but I guess this is obvious now. Posters Hyaku (Menkyo), ZealUK, Kogosoku, Fifthchamber and myself all recognise the seiho of the ryu. Who has fought the Hoshin corner? Just you. Mr Glimme doesn't respond to emails any more, and is probably for the best, considering he is hardly an authority on MA, being a kyu grade in a handful of arts and somehow becoming a kyoshi at 1st dan level. I guess if I ever give up actually studying to improve and decide to run into another organisation's arms for an inflated grade, then I'll keep this thread in mind. Jen, once again you are guilty of reading too many comic books in regards to Musashi's exploits. I suggest if you really wanna quote someone verbatim on the accepted facts, I can give you an email address in Kokura-kita so you can check whether your opinions based on widely-fictitious nonsense are spot-on - if fact naah, I doubt if that would be appreciated by the boss... Probably a good idea, seeing as you are out of your depth, both in regards to your sword teacher and the understanding of manners in koryu. We won't even mention your lack of grasp on the concept of kata theft. if I am incorrect on any of the above, feel free to correct me - but don't just argue for the sake of face-saving. Its gone too far for that... Cheers for that Zeal - it made a Monday morning much brighter...
We already knew your school didn't have a clue what it was doing when it came to HNIR. Now with this you show you have very little knowledge of Musashi as well. No one who would match your description would be frequented by such people as Ogasawara Tadazane or Hosokawa Tadatoshi. It does not matter what your particular opinion of this situation is. As far as the koryu world is concerned, you are outright frauds. There is little more to be said. To be fair, I don't understand why people keep poking you about it. Perhaps they're more optimistic as to your capacity to understand how things are done in the world from which you claim to be. I wish them well, and you too, but I suggest you keep to yourselves in the future. Claiming to practice arts without understanding what you're claiming exactly can bring you some real grief if you happen to be near people that have some knowledge and experience with the koryu world.
That whooshing sound was the point of this entire thread going right over your head there Jen. I do not practice HNIR. I have nothing to do with their ryu or training. However, I can see that the Hoshin organization is WRONG! It has nothing to do with legality, and everything to do with knowledge, respect, and propriety. These are all things which your organization seems to be missing completely. As kogusoku pointed out, reigi is at the heart of any martial arts that link to Japan. I followed this thread to see how your organization would react when it was publically stated that your leaders have absolutely no sense of honor at all. It has proceeded exactly as I thought it would. If you enjoy your training, I am sure you will continue to train there in spite of the fact that the international martial arts community is now laughing at you. However, now there is information readily available to any prospective students so they can use a Google search to learn a bit about the reality of the Hoshin organization, and where all the "techniques" come from. nickh, Very nice little article! Budo pirates indeed!
I've never seen any other techniques from Hoshin. However, since their senior administrators seem to condone and encourage making things up and misrepresentation, I would have to naturally assume that all of their stuff is crap. Since the organization's leadership condones and encourages lies and invention, then I would have to assume that this permeates throughout their core of instructors. I've no way of knowing what part of their curriculum is based on actual decent technique, and which part is ill-considered invention. Therefore, I will just have to assume that the entire organization is BS and ignore them. I think I'll start now! Jen, This is the kind of trouble you run into when your leadership is more interested in ego gratification, and making a buck, than they are in dedicated training under legitimate instructors.
I have avoided commenting on Hoshin and their curriculum as I know nothing about what they do, the founders' background etc. However, I am surprised that their new 'soke' has allowed this to continue. Is it a case of 'any publicity is good publicity'...? Is he even aware of what is happening here?
Well, a new year but no new explanation of Mr Glimme's actions. Can a mod lock this thread please? It will serve as an excellent warning to anyone who intends to learn the Hoshin sword syllabus that it is fact bogus and stolen from a legitimate ryu. Thanks.
I would be interest to see/read the syllabus, see how much of the Bujinkan techniques influenced their training. Has anyone access to a Hoshin Syllabus?
I just finished reading this entire thread and one of the things that absolutely cracks me up is how defensive people in the Niten Ichi Ryu are getting over KATA. When the fists start flying and people are throwing bottles at your head kata goes out the window. Mushashi knew this to be true, which is why he was as spectactular as he was. He didn't get hung up on forms, he was only focused on one thing, winning. I work in the electrical field. When I was training to learn my skill set my instructors told me "We are teaching you the theory of how electricity works so you can take that knowledge and apply it to whatever unique situation you may find yourself in, anywhere in the world." The same thing applies here. Kata teaches you the principles of movement. Once you understand the principles you then throw away the katas. This enables you to perform spontaneous "right" action in the middle of a fight rather than having to mentally process the situation. If Mr Glimme understands the principles of movement then he can very reasonably translate any video he may find. If he happened to have found some Niten Ichi Ryu stuff on the web and decided to take specific things from it and apply it from his own perspective, more power to him. If he were out there trying to say he is teaching Niten Ichi Ryu and is offering rank in said ryu then I would say he is in the wrong. However, that does not appear to be the case. As for Hoshin picking and choosing from various martial arts, that's called evolution. Take what has come before, streamline the best of the best, and move on to bigger and better things. If it's not for you, so be it, but don't knock it until you've tried it. History is full of people who challenged popularly held beliefs and have become immortal in the eyes of time. Columbus, Gallileo, Copurnicus, and so on. Are you too attached to your style or ryu to try to go beyond it? Are you a mindless zombie who simply repeats what has come before, or are you trying to create and improve with every moment?
And if you aren't: Principles of movement are one thing, they are universal. Koryu bujutsu kata are not. Bad anaology. Since there are belt ranks stipulated with each DVD this argument is rather moot. Also as above, principles of movement are universal, however, when that entails copying koryu from old video and claiming them as your own, that feces just won't fly. No, it's called plagarism. Noone uses sword anymore in combative confrontations, that's why firearms were invented. Principles of movement and sword technique can be taught without downright stealing kata from other ryuha. As for the zombies comment, if you knew what koryu was about, you'd kind of understand why so many rounds have been spent on this subject. There is a lot more to koryu than just repitition of movement and kata.
I dont want to get involved in this thread too much because my experience in HNIR is far less than the guys who have contributed to this thread, but from the videos that were linked to earlier, Mr Glimme has not looked at HNIR Kata and adapted it. It is just badly performed HNIR Kata, it doesnt matter if he reffers to them by the their correct name or origin, they are a different schools kata. I dont understand why a modern, or evolving martial art would need a sword syllabus. People who study HNIR or any other form of kenjutsu or iaido are not doing it to be proffecient with a bladed weapon, at least in my opinion. We are not all preparing for a time when the bullets run out and we will have a head start on everyone else. It is to keep an art and culture alive. So what is the reasoning for adding sword syllabus, however original or un-original to a modern martial art?
Now come on Nico! You saw my coat the other night it should be obvious I'm training for the Gathering!
