Ok, here goes...I went to class last night and overheard a conversation between two parents. I heard a father say that his son would be testing for his second dan next month during the black belt testings. When I heard this I was pretty upset. I've always felt that I've been going to a good school that wasn't money driven. Now I'm not so sure. The kid is only 13 or 14 and JUST got his 1st dan a year ago and is not exceptionally skilled by any means. There are adults who have had their 1st dans for over 2 years and have not advanced yet. I don't usually post a lot on here as you can see, but I felt like I had to. Has anything like this happened to anyone else? If so, please share. Am I overreacting?
4 years between Ist and 2nd dan in the TAGB for juniors. Parents chase belts, it is a sign that their money is well spent and that their child is progessing. Adults generally have learnt by 1st dan that there is no hurry and it's about being ready to grade not just able to.
I think you probably need to get it into your head that a black belt holds no inherent meaning or value. It may mean something different (less?) in the context of a child than it does with an adult. And you could very easily take the position that it somehow cheapens the black belt. Personally, I'm not going to take that position. To me, you have to look at the long game. In the long run, what matters is that people stay in martial arts. For adults, I think, it's easier in some ways. Because we're able to identify benefits of it that are more esoteric or personal. Younger people (even early teens) might need more concrete inducement to stay. So while I don't advocate giving them belts, I think that if something helps them stick around long enough to see other less obvious benefits, then it's well worth considering. At the end of the day, the belt's just a belt. We value it because we connect it to some sort of transformative experience. But it's the actual experience that counts. And someone can only have that experience if they're still around. So while I might not do what this teacher did, there is a "bright side" in my opinion. Stuart
I agree with ap Oweyn, A black belt is a bit of cloth that's worn around the waist. It means nothing. What mean something is the uniform, floor and body. The reason is that is the uniform and the floor that absorbs the sweat, tears and blood, and the body that bears the experiences of training. I've seen black belts who are fourth dan and useless. I've seen black belts who are first degree and I would not want to pick a fight with. But as to similar experiences; yeah, I met only 2nd degree black belt who was really arrogant. He claimed that he was the most talented student in his club and that no one below the rank of third degree should be teaching (in a club where the highest ranking was a second degree with over 30 years experience and no teeth left from real experience). Later I was paired with the guy for some light sparring and he was not only unable to block a single technique, he was also unable to land one on me!
A black belt means nothing is a little bit naive. If it meant nothing no-one would grade at all. I know my blackbelt meant a great deal to me. But i do appreciate that in TKD especially t is a poor indicator of ability. My friend got his 1st dan the same day as another guy, my friend trained regularly and taught a small club. three years later, the other guy has a 3rd dan in his pocket and my friend still a 1st. Their talent was similar, but the other guy brought in more money from his club. That is the only differnce i could see, and subsequently left TKD with a lot of bad memories. A black belt is nice to have, beyond that it doesn't really matter, but it still hurts when it happens to you.
Ok, I do agree that a black belt is a piece of cloth, but I still feel it has some meaning. Not many people could honestly say they'd train if they remained a white belt forever. And although most people's (especially non MAists) perception of a black belt is distorted, it still is a symbol of knowledge, experience, and skill.
This is where I sort of disagree with you. I mean, I think you're probably right that people wouldn't train if they were forced to wear a white belt indefinitely. But I know plenty of people who train for no belt at all. Likewise, in a system like BJJ, where it takes a lot longer to earn each belt, a white belt is still something of an achievement. So, again, it's the context that gives that white belt meaning. Nothing inherent. Would I personally wear a white belt indefinitely if I knew I was getting good teaching? Yeah, I probably would. (Having earned a black belt and learning first hand that it really doesn't fundamentally change anything, that is.) Stuart
Tough to say without knowing the whole story... looking at the Kukkiwon site for WTF promotions would seem to have him fitting the minimum requirements for 2nd poom. Regardless, if you are happy with your progress and instruction, I wouldn't worry about other peoples' promotions for the most part. Who knows?
Thomas, thanks for posting that. I always believed it was a 2 year waiting period from 1st to 2nd dan (3yrs. for 3rd, 4 yrs. for 4th, etc.).
That's true. What I posted above is for the "WTF" (Kukkiwon) and only represents the "minimum". Instructors and schools all promote based on their own ideas and evaluations bearing in mind only the minimum requirements proscribed by the overall federation... being free to add more requirements or more time.
Belts Good Bad an Ugly Having received my black belt and help run a TKD school, here is my perspective on belts: 1) Belts are a marketing tool: This is not always bad, it help to keep students motivated to move to the next level and keep coming to class. It could be argued that if they are not motivated without belts they are not dedicated enough to their art. That may be true but some without the motivation gain the motivation as they progress. 2) Belts are just to get the school extra money: Quite often true, and this can get a little hairy as some schools tend to overcharge for belts. Suffice to say that if your school cannot meet its’ needs by the regular membership dues, it probably needs to re-think its’ pricing policy and maybe even think of sending a few staff members to a course in running and managing a business. 3) Belts as a motivational tool: This could be tied in with point one above but this is where a belt system excels, as it helps to let you know what progress you are making. Even from with-in the Mickiest (spell it as you see fit) of Mc-Dojo's at the very least you know you are doing better than when you walked in the front door if nothing else from a physical conditioning stand point. Hopefully most people attend a school where you receive some instruction. 4)Everyone seems to pass: Unfortunantly this is quite apparently the norm especially in the kids ranks. Like with any school grading should be performed fairly. I look at it like going to University and busting your but on an assignment (performing research, writing a paper, etc...) and the person next to you hands the professor a peice of paper with their name on it and nothing else and you both receive a perfect score for the class. If this happend you would be worried that the school you were attending was not really preparing you for work outside the classroom, and on top of that finding a job would be difficult because everyone in the workfield would know that the school you attanded is a joke. In just the same manner it is just as dis-heartening to see people just given ranks because they show up. I know this does not happen in every school, but sadly this is also not the minority case either. I guess it boils down to how important are belts to you, not to me, or anyone else on this board but to you.
The problem with TKD and other M/A like it is that you have to grade to progress, unless you have a very understanding instructor. Martial Arts that have only fighting as their core don't need, and in the most part don't have a grading system. Ones that do are not taken up by many of the practicioners. My wife has been training in Muay Thai for 4 years and has graded twice (UK & USA can now grade under WKA and others orginizations now in Muay Thai and kickboxing). My son who has trained for 5 years has only missed 2. If you know you are getting better that should be enough, but how many 4th and 5th dans don't show their rank on their belt?
When I was a kid I used to pout when my instructor said I wasn't ready to promote yet. Now that I'm older I know that the reward is day to day. It is the training that matters to me. I just want to train and 'enjoy the moment'. I think most of us mature to that type of thought process as we get older and more seasoned with the art. Yes...I still test when my instructor tells me to test (at this point five years passes between tests anyway, but I know longer look forward or anticipate it. Instead I'm focused on the actual training itself. Basically I agree with your outlook on belts.
For me, there would be two factors to consider before making a final judgement: 1) How much is being charged to move up from 1st Dan to 2nd Dan? 2) Is this kid an exception in your club or are there many other students who seem to grade despite in training they seem to make lots of mistakes?
