'Holding the Ball' - redirecting and counter-acting

I think I demonstrated that holding the ball can be used as a defensive posture?

 

I would'nt class 'turning the ball' as a posture in itself,especially as there are so many diverse applications using the same movements(at least in chen where turning the ball is an integral concept encompassing silk reeling,breathing exercises etc.

 

Yes, there is no posture in Taijiquan, as it just moving continuously from form to form.

 

When you use

- "Parting the Wild Horse Mane", your arm will be "above" your opponent's arm.When you touch a horse mane, your arm will be "above" it's neck and not below it.
- "slantingly flying", your arm will be "below" your opponent's arm.

Since in that clip, his arm is below his opponent's arm, it can be called Taiji "diagonal fly", or SC "elbow locking", or SC "shoulder strike".

 

Thanks, and if you put the arm under the opponent's you actually trapped you own arm under his elbow. In Shaiojiao you need to control both arms.

 

In either scenario your opponents arm is still controlled by your blocking/trapping hand.
If PWHM(arm on top)correctly done you throw your opponent,if arm is underneath,after the shoulder strike,
raise your opponents arm to expose ribs/chest to follow with,for example,fair lady moves shuttle.
Just how I see it !

 

Interesting conversation...

A couple of points from my (highly opinionated) perspective...

In forms there is only '1' move - you start, you move, you finish... The number of 'moves' - 8 or 13 or 16 or 24 or 38 or 88 or 108.... is only an aid to teaching the form (and in many cases a friendly nod to Chinese numerology and superstition - Eight being generally regarded as an auspicious number).

When I am teaching self defence, I often joke that I will be very cross with any student who gets into a fight and wins using an incorrect method... In other words, all applications are valid * IF * they work for you.

When I learn from my Sun style instructor, I have to disengage a whole section of my 'tai chi brain' as several of the names (of moves) that he uses are the same as ones I know from 'Yang' BUT used for different moves!!! BOY was that confusing at first... HOWEVER - on reflection it's a very good thing - the name is NOT the move...

 

I agree,movement in a form is continuous but this thread has been discussing 'live'applications.
As Robertmap points out there are multiple interpretations/uses for many moves
and a fluid spontaneous response thats effective is the 'right" one(and the aim of my
training)

 

Here is another example that you use "shoulder strike" when your opponent applies "arm dragging" on you.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw_kmMy0cG4"]Kao - YouTube[/ame]

 

If you use your under arm to

- strike upward on his elbow joint, it's called arm-locking (if your other hand also hold on his wrist).
- strike side way under his shoulder, it's called body-control (if your leg also control his leg).
- wrap around his waist, it's called embracing (if your other hand can lift his leg).

So your arm that's under your opponent's arm can perform many functions.

 

Glad you liked it

Did you find that the opponent was 'in the right place' as you turned, or did you feel like you had to 'move yourself' into the right position?

 

Cool

 

Thanks for the advice on the under arm, but the video you show on arm dragging but did not match the first video of DB. Your video showing a left hand drag on the right arm while DB is using the right arm against the right arm. Therefore your suggested encounter on arm dragging does not work in his case. The normal encounter is just hit him on the head with the elbow as he pull the arm, or hold on his right wrist and drop the elbow pressing his left arm under the elbow and hit him on the hear with the left arm while both of his hands are trapped.

I think the Shuaijiao moves were very good in controlling both arms while DB just focus on one arm and is kind of dangerous not controlling the elbow in arm dragging as well.

 

In Dan Bian's clip, he used "搂手(Lou Shou) - double pulling". In my clip, the teacher used "引手(Yin Shou) - arm dragging".

In DB's clip, when he uses his right hand grabs and pulls his opponent's right wrist, he also uses his left arm to jam his opponent's right elbow joint. This works the same as to put his left hand on his opponent's right elbow joint as the normal "搂手(Lou Shou) - double pulling (one hand on wrist, another hand on elbow)".

Since his opponent's own right arm is used to jam his own left arm, there is no need for him to control both arms. When you are in your opponent's side door and if you have controlled one arm, you have controlled both arms.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcP9WFthOi4"]Applied Tai Chi Principle - YouTube[/ame]

In my clip, the teacher tries to use "引手(Yin Shou) - arm dragging" to switch from front door into side door. In DB's clip, he is already in his opponent's side door.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw_kmMy0cG4"]Kao - YouTube[/ame][/QUOTE]

 

I'd also like to point out, that my original clip wasn't meant as a 'this is it' type clip - but rather an on-the-spot clip taken during a class, as a 'take home' for my guys, to help them when training at home.
It's certainly not meant to reflect an actual combative encounter, but more of a principles study.