Hit 23 times in under 3 seconds

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Thomas Vince, Mar 18, 2002.

  1. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Mike,

    I don't believe this is accurate, but I'd like a second opinion!

    The specifics of the Wing Chun Vertical punch should perhaps be on the Kung Fu Forum?

    I am wary of 'hijacking' T Vince's thread, as it is about speedhitting!

    Andy M
     
  2. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    As I say, I'm not a WC player so don't know how WC does it or perceives it. I know this is how I was taught it ... but I also know that my instructor's primary background is Kali and Silat so I'm sure that his method was influenced by these.

    I figure that however WC guys do it, it must have merit because it works for them. I know the way I was taught has merit because it works for me. Which is "better" ... depends on who you ask and everybody would be correct in their answer :)

    Yup ... very good point :)

    Mike
     
  3. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    In some Karate styles there are actually 4 ranges to a naturally punching hand. Uppercut, Twist Punch, Verticle Punch, and an Inverted Verticle Punch. The twist punch is never thrown about the shoulders because it exposes the second knuckle digit tothe target rather than the actual large and first joint of the fingers known as the knuckles. The Verticle punch is used anytime the punch needs to be higher than the shouder.
     
  4. khafra

    khafra New Member

    I've noticed anecdotally, though not statistically, that Wing Chun competitors in tournaments seem to be somewhat injury-prone. It could be that when the style was created, in the interests of training expediency the operator's safety was one of the things less emphasized.
    On another note, I believe Southern Crane style also emphasizes very quick hitting, anybody know how they accomplish that?
     
  5. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    What about methods in increasing speed, does your breathing has anything to do with it, what about "patterns' that the hands are moved in, aligning specific targets when mutliple striking in being practiced and lastly do you gauge the power or are all the shots like a wave start at one impact level rise to thier peak and then fall as they get weaker?
    Thank you people great conversation!!!!
    Thomas:D :D :D
     
  6. waya

    waya Valued Member

    I would say breathing and relaxation are key factors. I'm not sure about specific hand movements as I have never used anything that drilled because it doesn't flow naturally for me. Keep in mind that the only thing I can hit 23 times in one second is the backspace key :) But I really think that natural motion and relaxation will greatly improve speed.

    Rob
     
  7. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    In the FMA, we use a variety of drills to build these attributes. The primary, though, would probably be the "hubad lubad" drills. They teach and ingrain a lot of principles into the body such as sensitivity, flow, trapping, not getting trapped, finding holes in your opponent's defenses, closing your own holes, economy and efficiency of motion. Relaxation is emphasized throughout the development because without relaxation the rest of these attributes are stunted.

    Mike
     
  8. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    Chain punching is not really something that is that hard to train, most of my students can do about 8/sec which is about the 23 in 3 seconds that this punch is on after about 6 - 12 months. I do it quite a bit faster then them. Do the punches have power? Yes. Do they have KO level power? No that is not their function.

    What spurred my timing of such things was the adds for the speedman's videos. It seemed a little to quick to be possible, so I timed myself and some of my students and did faster then he advertised himself as being able to get me to do.

    My main reason for doing it is to eliminate unneccessary motion, makes punches less telegraphed. The jab may not knock you out but the follow up will do a little more.
     
  9. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I used to think that as well before I started in Shotokan, and I'd say yes and no.

    On the point of impact your classic karate punches (Oi zuki or Gyaku zuki) should be like that iron bar puching through your solar plexus. But it is only tense at the point of contact to increase speed, because when your tense the muscles are fighting against each other. You get a lot of people who haven't learned this lesson, as well as fully locking out their arm on punching, and this is where that 'stiff karate punch' comes from.

    In Tai Jistu we practice rapid striking, but the idea behind it being that the fast strikes are only a distraction to line up your opponent for that killer KO shot.

    Thanx
     
  10. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Just to tidy up a loose end. As I said I don't claim to be an authority on Wing Chun.

    So I posted some of the questions raised here on a Wing Chun Forum and got some very useful information. Glad you all asked them.

    Wing Chun's vertical punch 'does' transfer all it's power using the lower three knuckles. ( See inch punch for details )

    A physiologist explained that bones in the hand are very hard to break, though they can be diplaced. Wall bag training coupled with good technique should mean that this is not a problem.

    As for Wing Chun guys getting injured at tournaments. The Wing Chun community acknowledges that many of it's practitioners are in less than perfect physical condition (some are old men after all)
    I would like to point out though that Wing Chun is not a sport, but a pure system of personal defence. As a system of Defence, it is second to none, and I suggest you all take a class as soon as you can!
     
  11. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    Let me clear something up here. The weapons used in this striking sequence were not all punches. In fact there was an even mix of closed hand and open hand strikes as well as using the feet! In Kenpo we consider a three hand kenpo technique as striking with both hands and a foot.
    Question, how do you in your martial art work in footwork and foot placement and how does this enhance your power or speed?
    Great topic guys I have a lot of great stuff!
    Thomas
     

Share This Page