help with Escrima (knife fighting!)

Following up on PtKali778's post,

In Toronto contact Guro Joe Apostol at joeapostol@Sayoc.com, great guy and teacher!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

 

ptkali778, are you connected with Loki Jorgenson, the Pekiti Tirsia instructor in BC? if not, what PTK group are you connected with?

 

juramentado...yup loki jorgenson is my guro for pekiti tirsia and silat....do you know him?

 

I've heard of him. I'm also a Pekiti Tirsia student, studying under Guro Rommel Tortal and Tuhon Leo Gaje here in Manila.

 

moderator what belt r u?

 

Please only asking a question to discuss so as to educate and settle a question in my head but not to take disrespectfully.With knife fighting...do you believe in simplicity? The keep it simple attitude? I'm inquiring this because I was looking at Aryiu 's link to sayoc kali. Maybe you can enlighten me with some things . I read some of the articles and was quite impressed with the very indepth information. Saw some of the pre set drills beautiful to watch then when I came upon the 13 ways is it? Of holding a knife, that's when it hit me? It seems that this system has expanded into a very complex and not simplified way of teaching. Too much info leads to overload. I remember one of the manongs..The LAte Tatang Ilustrisimo when he explained this .."Alam mo ang pinaka simpleng tama sa beginer? ito ..pak.(Do you know what is the most simple strike in basic? This -) He did a simple forehand downward diagonal strike or angle one in most systems., Alam mo ano ang pinaka advanced na tama? Ito din! (do you know what is the most advanced strike? This one too! ) same motion.
There are two basic ways to hold a knife.. one is the over hand, hammer grip or saksak. and the other is under hand, ice pick grip or pakal. To count every variation of this would not be leading away from simplification. Another is the analogy of the responses...right response ,reflexive response.., uhmm sorry I don't know the rest or can't remember them but here proves my point. I guess from my understanding of what I found works with weapons and strike Military upbringning..simplicity goes a long way. Or maybe this system is to deep for my shallow mind? The pre set drills are beautiful to watch, the templates is it? But both combatans are right in front of each other and I know knife fights don't happen this way..but when they spar does it resemble anything like the drills? Brings to mind what a wise Manong said to me.."pwede bang gawin? Oo pwede pero dapat ba? " -Can you do it? of course you can but should you? Please share your insight so I may understand what I am missing?

Thanks for your time.

 

i too subscribe to what guro jun (de leon of kdl) says- what works is the best.

 

juramentado...you're lucky you get to train with grand tuhon leo gaje, i envy you! Bout a few weeks ago mandala tuhon phillip gelinas was over in b.c, for a 2 day seminar.....that's kinda cool! how long have you been a pekiti tirsia student?

 

juramentado what belt r u in pekiti?

 

pikiti has belts???

 

There are no belts in Pekiti-Tirsia. There are ranks though, but only instructor ranks. You know... Guro, Agalon, Tuhon, etc. No Datu rank, thank God.

 

No, man! You are absolutely right. Sometimes the simplest technique, no matter how basic and no matter how un-secret it is will still win the day. I remember when I was in college and I had a friendly match with a western fencing exponent. Hayan, I was doing some of those fancy twirly arnis techniques and I did get a few hits in, pero it would also get me hit as well. Later, I got tired and did banda y banda the rest of the night. Would you believe, I kept hitting him everytime on the return stroke no matter what technique he pulled and I didn't get hit afterwards. Galing! It has since then become my favorite technique.

My bro, on the other hand, would always do Single Sinawali number 1 to try and end the fight as soon as possible. Thing is, even in friendly sparring, he could do the same thing over and over again and it works.

Maybe that's the reason why in Arnis or Escrima, the first techniques taught are usually the ones that can be used right away.

Cool.

 

There are no belts in Pekiti. I've been practicing more than a year already...so I guess that makes me a "white belt" LOL

 

what does LOL mean?

do you have turnaments in pekiti?

 

lol= laugh out loud

pikiti tournaments= yes. battle of kali being one of them.

 

i thought its Pekiti with an E. pls correct this or i'll tell Tuhon Gaje

 

pardon my ignorance sirs but what is different from kali from arnis de mano and from pekiti?

 

That is the most debated question done over and over without any real firm answers just personal meanings attached to the terminologies used.

Kali-numerous meanings dependent on the system that is using it. the problem is that it is not a common term to Most of the pilipinos. I say most becausee there are some that are familiar with this but more so not the norm.

Some meanings:
Kalis-blade
Kali-the hindu goddess and our ties to the Madjapahit empire
Ka-li short for Katawan and lihok meaning body movement.
Ka- is a very common pre fix fo most of our terms. Kalibogan (lust):love: , kapatid (brother), kayamanan (riches) and so on so to say ka-li is not part of our language is open for debate.
Kali as related to some festivals and areas -kalikalihan, kalibo, pangkali kali
It was mentioned in Pacido yambao's book about Arnis.
Some examples of systems using Kali:
Some will say that kali leans toward more blade oriented styles like Pekiti tirsia of Tuhon Leo Gaje who did the survivng edge weapons used by most Law Enforcement agencies .
Pikit (close) Tirsia (quarter) too cut up in close quarters. Kalis ilustrisomo or kali Ilustrisimo Tatang always equated his teachings to baldes not sticks.
Sayoc Kali- knife work more prevalent, used int he movie "the Hunted" -Head of the system, Chris Sayoc also studied under Tuhon Gaje of Pekiti .
other notable systems, kali de Leon there are numerous systems.

Arnis de mano- taken from the word arnes , the harnes of the hands..
Arnis is the most common term used in the Phlippines and recognized by Pilipinos. Most Visayan systems use arnis. "If Kali is to blade Arnis is to sticks" , Just a common term but not neccessarily true as all FMa deals with both types of weapons Impact or edged. But the quote may have been taken from most misconceptions by Pilipinos that arnis is about stickfighting only.
Arnis de mano-(emptyhands vs weapons or emptyhands vs emptyhands portion of Arnis. Once again Mano (hands). Some systems use Arnis de mano but teach the whole spectrum of weapons and emptyhands.

Eskrima- Spanish deriviation -skirmish. Also you will find Egskrima, from european fencing etc. Still FMA weapons.

You may take note that systems have changed their names by dropping the Arns for Kali or adding Kali to their family names.

all in all it's just terminologies that don't mean a thing except confuse people. What is writen above is a compilation of notes taken or impression from years of reading exhaustive dabates similar to "which came first the chicken or the egg?" Also we tend to categorize things in one word. Like using a brand name to cover all others. Like
colgate for toothpaste, coke for soda etc.

I tend to appreciate the similarties rather than the differences of FMA systems .
To me what's important is the substance of what is taught , not the name.

 

Eskrima- Spanish deriviation -skirmish. Also you will find Egskrima, from european fencing etc. Still FMA weapons.

Uncorrect afirmation, Eskrima comes from "Esgrima", fencing in spanish. The verb "esgrimar" in spanish means (apart from the fencing meaning) use something for defense.

Cheers.

 

Thanks for the clarification , there are other terms close to the words Eskrima too but I don't recall what language or word. Nonetheless the Spanish influence is intertwined most especially in Espada Y daga (sword and dagger) portions of FMA.