Help! PUPS!

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Victoria, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    Well she's a lot better this morning, letting us stroke her head. Hopefully she won't turn into mega beast again later.

    Cheers slip. Chris knows what he's doing at least. A staff forum would be a good idea too :cool:
     
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    Scratch that. He just went to pet her on his way out the door and she sunk her teeth right through his fingers, in one side out the other.

    We can't get the bleeding to stop so I'm sending him to get it seen to.

    I'm now terrified of the dog.


    The pups still aren't getting fed enough. This is perfect :rolleyes:
     
  3. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    At this point, I'd call the shelter.

    This isnt your dog yet as far as the bitch is concerned, and if she is at this point happy enough to bite like that, I'd have someone come deal with her.

    If you had raised her from pup you could work with her, but this one may never come round now. As I was sayin last night, she could have been a breeding farm, and had pups taken very early before. Without a full history, you've no idea what she is capable of.

    One last thing you could try is muzzle her? Only try this if she has let you muzzle her recently. Now is not a good time to experiment.

    Hope you get sorted. I assume the bitch was vacinated etc before you got her, so chris hand should be ok.
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    That's about the only thing the shelter did get right, she's been vaccinated.

    Next time she bites without warning I will ring and have her taken. It'll break Chris's heart but I can't have that in the house. Staffs may be more aggressive but this is unusual behaviour even for them apparently.

    For all we know, her last owners didn't spay her so she got knocked up by her brother then they drowned the pups - and still not spayed her so kicked her out when she got pregnant again. In the area she was picked up in that's actually likely.
     
  5. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Damn that's really sad.
    If you'd had her a few more months she might not have been like this (but then she wouldn't have been pregnant either).
    Not an easy situation for you at all. Personally I'd not tolerate a dog that had bitten me that badly unless it was done under EXTREME circumstances (when badly injured, mistake mid-fight for example). You don't know this dogs full history so be very wary. Staffs are (fairly) commonly dog aggressive but not usually people aggressive.

    The shelter seem to be to blame here. I thought most shelters spayed and castrated before rehoming a dog as a matter of policy!?!?
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    Chris has had a nasty bite before but it was an accident while playing tug, she didn't mean to catch him - we can accept that. She also went for me when I tried to pet her once (a couple of weeks ago), but she had a bone she was chewing so I can accept that too.

    At the moment she's looking very sheepish until you go near, then she instantly bares her teeth.

    Personally I want to ring the shelter to take her at this point, but Chris will break his heart so we're persevering as long as we can. If she doesn't calm down we'll have no choice.


    We're thinking about reporting the shelter. Here's their deal. You go along to view the dogs, the kennels are very damp, smelly, and dirty, but this may be normal kennel conditions I don't know. Then you choose a dog and provided they've been there for 7 days, you walk away with it. No home visits, no questions asked, and a fee of £89 (we assume for any medium sized dog as with Cassie).
    While visiting their vet on Friday there was another couple who had unknowingly re homed a pregnant bitch. It doesn't seem to be an uncommon practice in this shelter. The only help they'll give is the offer of taking the mum and pups, then re homing the pups themselves (probably for a hefty price with no questions asked, as with their dogs), then giving the mum back to you.
    This shelter is also in partnership with Dogs Trust, a charity shelter.


    As I said, the shelter is the last resort and we're hanging on for as long as we can.
     
  7. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    I'd get the bitch taken back, but stipulate you want one of the pups when its old enough.
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    We're keeping them for another few days. If she doesn't improve and she'll still trying to take a chunk out of us, we'll have the shelter take her.

    Then I'll either ask for her and/or one pup back, or we'll leave it there. Chris is so attached to her I don't think he'll want another dog - and neither do I now that I'm terrified of them...
     
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Sadly this is what can happen when you rescue a dog (can happen buying a pup too). You've no idea what has happened to her in the past, what experinces she's had etc. At least with a pup you know how it came to be like it is (by and large).
    Personally I do not accept ANY possessive aggression from a dog.
    I can take anything off of mine. Food, toys whatever. Whatever they have is mine first and foremost. I'm merely letting them have it for a bit.
    The only thing one of my dogs will snap at is cutting his nails. That I can just about accept. Just about mind.
    Getting tagged while playing tug of war is par for the course. As is the occasionaly headbutt when you bend down. :)
    Snapping because she chewing a bone? Nope sorry. I wouldn't accept that.

    I have to say the shelter sounds a little bit dodgy.

    Don't give up one dogs. Try getting a pup from scratch from a good breeder and see what happens. It'll be more expensive but very rewarding in the long run.
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    Well we're not giving up on her quite yet. We tempted her out of her bed with a sausage earlier and she had a fuss before flying back to her pups in a hurry. Next time she goes out I'll move the bed and check the pups. Then just leave her until she's spending more time out of the bed :)
     
  11. Rhea

    Rhea Laser tag = NOT MA... Supporter

    Hopefully the pups are getting fed ok and she'll calm down. I'd report the shelter myself, maybe have the RSPCA take her instead?
     
  12. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    You are going to have a heck of a time trying to convince her that you aren't a threat. You haven't really had her that long, you have allowed her to become dominant in the household (as well as food aggressive) and she is at a point where she is naturally going to be more defensive and protective.

    Good luck and I really do wish you well, but the pronosis is not too good at this point. I would continue to let her be and hope that she calms down enough to allow you to co-exist with her pups.]

    Good luck.
     
  13. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    Thanks all :)


    Well she's still snapping if we go within 5 foot of her whelping area, but, she was in and out a lot last night to give us attention while still checking her pups.

    When out of the nest she's her normal self, eating, having a fuss, and even had a game of tug last night.

    I'm not convinced she should be out of the nest this early, though she was only away for very short periods at a time. But at least she's still friends when she is out :cool:
     
  14. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Really it's a bit silly to second guess the dogs instinctual maternal capabilities. They're hardwired for it. She could easily birth and raise those pups with little more than the food you provide her. Seriously... they will instinctually raise their own as just about any mammal will.

    The bigger issue you have is that you don't have control over the dog. That is has behavorial issues like snapping or snarling at you when it is eating or chewing bones... doesn't bode well for you to be honest. You can't mince about... either the dog is in control or you are... there is no half way. Don't kid yourself into thinking that you are controlling the situation... you're reacting to the rules set out by the dog. Honestly. You're playing the dogs game. That's usually not good for a dog owner of that breed. It will carve out it's territory when and where it wants to.... it already has. It tolerates you now... don't ever think otherwise. The minute you're viewed as threat to it or the pups it will turn on you with a vengeance.

    If that dog decides to turn on you. You're a goner. People underestimate what a dog can do. That breed in particular is fierce when they are living by the boundaries they set. So I think the whole thing is backwards on you at the moment. Not safe for you.

    Get the dog to eat in a separate area (kitchen, bathroom or whatever) that you can close him off in and then check on the pups and change the blanket etc. But to risk it when the dog can get back there could get you some trip to doctor to get stitches for a nasty wound at the sharp end of his teeth. No joke.

    But do what you must... lets see more picks of the pups when you get a chance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2008
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    I knew I should have got the colllie :rolleyes:

    When adopting from a shelter I think there'll always be the chance of behaviour problems. She is a very ignorant and stubborn dog, it takes a lot of effort to get her to do something she doesn't want to.

    We're just glad she's coming out for a fuss now. If the attacking continues into next week, pups or no pups, we will be taking her back. I can't risk having a dog like that here. It may be understandable with the pups right now, but what will it be in future :confused:

    We're leaving her be in her bed for now because of the pups, but making her come out for food in her usual spot in the kitchen. That seems to be helping. Chris is very stern with her so hoping she'll come round.
     
  16. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    She isn't ignorant and stubborn, she's dominant. She figures she is at the top of the pack- which is VERY dangerous for you. Chris may or may not be above her in her head- I don't know without watching them interact. But from what you have said, she is definitely over you.

    It is a problem you need to address once the pups are off though. There are plenty of simple things you can start doing to establish dominance without ever laying a hand on her. Its a bit more effort when you aren't raising them from puppies yourself, but it can easily be done with an adult dog.
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    That's encouraging. We'd rather not give her up if possible.

    She let me pet her head while in her nest just now, but probably because I had a chew stick in my hand. I haven't risked petting her otherwise unless she comes away.

    She has improved since we had her. She now knows that 'NOW' means now or she's in trouble, and she'll always look away when you're telling her she's a bad girl, she also knows before we do that she's done something bad.

    Once the pups have been homed (bar the one we're keeping) we can work on that better.
     
  18. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    You ever watched the dog whisperer? :D

    I'm not suggesting you try the things he does but that TV show makes it clear that it is possible to rehabilitate dogs with dominance issues.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Pretzel In Training

    I'll check it out ;)
     
  20. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    You can start now with a few things- you can start working on the food aggression now, for instance. When you feed her, what do you do? Do you just put the food down for her and is there a routine? For instance, I have a three dog packlet. When I go to feed them, they have to remain inside when I go out to pick up the bowls and then when I come back inside, they have to go outside to wait while I put food in the dishes. When I walk out to feed them, all three have to sit and remain seated while I am distributing the food and can only break the stay when I tell them ok.

    What this does is two fold. I am the leader of the pack by controlling what they are doing and where they are going- I always go in and out first. They also have to work to get food by the sit- stay command. Finally, I am addressing any possible food aggression by making it clear that I control the food.

    You can start with a simple sit-stay command and then work from there. Food aggression is very dangerous as it can start cropping up with children- who tend to have food around a lot and tend to be within the dogs reach at any given time.

    The guy mentioned does have some books that you might like to look at. I don't agree with everything he does, but he does provide a good starting point. Also look into training programs because having a good obediance training will assist you in establishing dominance.

    Basically, there is a lot that is on hold for the time being but there is also a lot that you can work on now. And plenty of resources on the net. No need to give up on her quite yet.
     

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