i've recently noticed that a lot of our students are getting discouraged when doing bagwork, claiming that when they punch the bag, it barely moves. this brought up a question that i haven't really got around to answering. is a heavy bag a good way to measure your punching power?
My sensei says he doesn't keep one in the dojo because it doesn't accurately depict the proportions and weight of the human body. However, I do own a heavy bag (I had it before I started), but don't use it as I am looking for some exercises I can do besides just beat up on it
The heavy bag is one of the most important pieces of equipment you could own. You can develop power, speed and coordination as well as great cardiovascular conditioning using a bag. Actually the bag shouldn't move, or I should say it shouldn't "swing". If it's a softer bag or one of those water filled bags, a correct punch (or kick for that matter) should fold the bag. The bag will have little movement and you shouldn't have to go chasing the bag around. If it's a good bag (heavy and hard) you'll find it extremely difficult to fold but the principle is the same. Your fist will form a sort of hole or dent/crease and the chain holding the bag will "pop", the bag won't swing. It takes practice and the development of a good punch through good body mechanics and continuous bag work. No offense but I find this statement silly, or puzzling to say the least. Doesn't depict the proportions of the human body? What does......hanging a human on a chain?? I think its close enough besides the fact that depicting the human body has nothing to do with developing punching (or kicking) power. The benefits far out way the shortcomings. You want to learn how to hit hard? You need to practice against a target period. Air punching will get you nowhere. Tommy
Traditional karate punches, performed in the standard basic way (i.e. in a static zenkutsu-dashi - front stance) IMO do not work well against heavy bag. Despite intstructors talking about the "power" of front or reverse karate punches IMO they are more snap or sharp impact strikes when performed from a static stance. In order to develop real punching power (i.e. to get the bag to fold) you need to step in with the punch using body weight (and the hips) using a more relaxed and fluid technique, more akin to doing front or reverse punches in a free-style stance or effectively using more of a boxers-style punch. You need to also adjust your range so that you are punching to a notional target beyond the bag i.e. your arm should never completely lock out otherwise you are losing alot of power. Some people like to use makiwara but I think they do more harm that good. Using a heavy bag is IMO (A) more realistic and (B) helps develop real, dynamic power punching.
I agree very strongly with the two gentlemen above. The heavy bag is key for developing power, and getting immediate feedback on your punching and kicking. The bag is heavier than the average person? Good. If you get the bag to move, or better yet to fold, burst open, and explode , just imagine what you can do to a "real" person. Hit the bag. Hit it a lot. It is the quickest way to teach you how to keep your wrists lined up with your hands. The bag also has nice rounded edges too, just like people, so that forces you to concentrate on blasting straight ahead too. Mark G
The heavy bag is like a mirror - it gives back what you give it. In answer to the folding thing - what rubbish. If you have a bag that really folds in the middle, then it isn't a heavy bag - it's a carrier bag. A heavy bag does not fold in the middle. It may indent when you hit it, but not fold, and it should swing around. If it isn't swinging around, you aren't hitting it hard enough. Excuses won't do, you just aren't hitting it hard enough.
The statement regarding folding the bag is in principle. As I wrote in my post: Note that I mentioned the cheap soft bag in my example. I did mention that with the good bag it may be difficult, that is because it can be done with a kick. Rare with a punch, and sure don't want to face the guy if he can While you're not going to fold a "good" heavy bag the principle remains the same and the idea is the bag shouldn't swing. Just as your opponent shouldn't be thrown back by your punch, he should crumble Tommy
I agree with Tommy. If the heavy bag swings then your punching is too slow (or the bag too light) and is acting more like a strong "push" - not effective.
If the strikes are aimed at dim mak points with intent to kill, a heavy bag isn't necessary. At our school we are pretty precise about strikes, so just punching really hard isn't the objective. However if you are doing it for sport or just wanna be really tough I guess a heavy bag is better. To each their own I s'pose, if you don't like the bag don't use it, if you do, great
Well then that's diferent! Of coarse I wouldn't use a bag then. I would never hit a bag with intent to kill..................whadda ya get for killin a bag? About 5 years?? Tommy
thx for the feedback, though what i don't get is how if a chain can "pop"? when i punch it, using a boxer style force, a lot of momentum is created. the bag (i estimate about 55-68 lbs.) swings back, and there's always little "dent" in the exterior.
If you were to swing the bag it swings evenly from the point of connection by the chain (at the ceiling). BUT If you hit it and it doesn't swing, it gets sort of displaced (bends slightly in the middle which forces the top to move ) which causes the chain to jerk. It's almost like grabbing hold of it and slightly lifting and dropping it. Hope that didn't confuse you more It's a jerking of the chain.....maybe pop was a bad term. Tommy
For me the Heavy Bag is 50% of the training (in kick boxing that is not aikido or judo ). It is the only way to maximise the power of your kicks and punches -other then breaking bricks i guess - , because in time you feel the power of the punch , your body weight when you punch, the feedback from the bag etc... I'm 1.83cm 86kilos (about 6 feet 190lbs i think) average guy and when i hit the bag its like a wild dance for the first two sets and strugling with waves from the 3rd and after. Damn it feels good and i miss it (resting for summer)... I always hit the bag full force with everything i got till i'm dead... the bag always wins ...oh exept once when the chain broke!! what a feeling!I guess its like when dunking in basketball and the backboard breaks Of cource for the bag to move a lot i gotta wear gloves. When i go barehanded it doesnt move as mutch. I guess its because of the smaller area of the contact . No. You dont learn the teqnique from punching the bag. The bag is for practising the teqnique. the only problem i can think of is that your hands wont be hardened as much. In the first 2 years we only had a softer bag and i cant say it taught me anything wrong..
that's cool, the bag is reasonably hard enough but not that heavy, although i prefer it to the one we have in our kung fu dojo.
as well, just because it doesn't swing as much doesn't mean you don't punch hard, your energy is just transferred differently. my straight and overhand right to the face jerks the bag like crazy, but my uppercut to the liver only sinks into the bag, and leaves two dent marks that are insanely hard to get out.
Hit that bag You've got to have a heavy bag, and I mean heavy! The bag trains you in preventing excessive recoil. That way you avoid those embarrassing situations where your fist just bounces off some guys body.
most of the ones i've seen for sale are no heavier than 30kg. anyway, what do you propose filling it with to get a really good wieght? I don't think sand or anything like that will do as it compacts and turns into on big solid
Actually sand is good. , the best sand is sea sand.True, it does compact but it takes some time, but it's not that difficult to refill, and if you live near a beach - its free!
